Jest Out of Jurisdiction
Law Enforcement / First Responder stories and experiences with a focus on comedic blunders, events, and the lighter side of stressful jobs. Stories are firsthand accounts told by the hosts Flash and T-Dot with accompanying guest interviews.
Jest Out of Jurisdiction
Heroes Helping Heroes Heal
What happens when those who protect us need protection themselves? In this powerful episode, we sit down with Stephen and Amanda Madden, a former police couple who now volunteer with Camp Hero, a nonprofit sanctuary for first responders and military veterans struggling with trauma.
The conversation begins with Amanda's experience as one of the few female officers in her department, revealing both the challenges she faced and the unexpected advantages her presence brought to certain situations. Stephen then takes us through the grueling SWAT team selection process—a test of not just physical endurance but mental fortitude under extreme pressure.
The mood shifts as both guests share raw, unflinching accounts of their mental health struggles. Stephen recounts contemplating suicide before becoming an officer, while Amanda describes a terrifying moment when medication side effects nearly led her to step into traffic. These deeply personal stories highlight why traditional support systems often fail first responders who fear career consequences for seeking help.
Camp Hero emerges as a beacon of hope in this landscape. Founded by Rocco, a former Navy veteran and police officer who faced his own battles after being medically retired, the organization offers hunting trips, fishing expeditions, and survival training completely free to participants. More than just activities, it provides a rare space where first responders can speak openly about their experiences without judgment.
As Stephen poignantly states, "It's heroes helping heroes heal." Whether you're connected to law enforcement or simply care about supporting those who serve our communities, this conversation offers crucial insights into the hidden struggles behind the badge and the healing power of understanding.
Music.
Speaker 2:All right guys, Welcome back to another episode of Just Out of Jurisdiction we got another pretty full table. Of course Doug's back with us again, but he'll hide in silence. He's here. He don't want me to call him out, but it's going to happen every time. We've got a first here, this first female officer we've had on, we're honored to have her on and another first, the first crime-fighting duo. We've had crime-fighting couple, I guess. You want to call it, I don't know which one's Batman and which one's Robin.
Speaker 5:It's still over there.
Speaker 2:But we've got Amanda and Stephen Madden with us and T-Dot's back. Of course we can't get rid of him yet. We're trying, we're getting closer. It's like gum on your shoe you can't scrape him off. This partnership has just went downhill.
Speaker 4:It's been possibly taken over, that's all right. It's been a long day, we're good, so I'm excited to hear some. It is unique because there's not a lot of female officers, I'm honest. We had a couple, I think three, four at london pd and then, you know, working at danville.
Speaker 4:There's a little more there's a couple yeah and uh, but really the perspective of it is sometimes like, oh my gosh, because I know as a, as a, as a guy, you want to jump in and you know, take over. You know, that was that stereotype you just out and not.
Speaker 2:It's a jerk move, but I know she can handle it.
Speaker 6:We all get put back in her place, like I got this.
Speaker 4:I'm sure it starts when it starts like that, but it's fine.
Speaker 6:Yeah, it is a different viewpoint, I guess. But growing up I just always wanted to be a police officer and I was told more times than I could count that I wasn't going to be allowed to be a police officer. I got told even the year before I started the academy that this was from a work colleague, that I was too short and didn't meet the height requirement.
Speaker 2:They were very serious.
Speaker 6:And I'm like that's not, they try to drag out books and I'm like that's that's not accurate.
Speaker 4:What year did you go through the Academy?
Speaker 6:2015. Okay, yeah, I mean it was. It was a. I was only female in the class until what week?
Speaker 5:was it about halfway through week 11?
Speaker 6:yeah, so we actually were in the same Academy class so we married after the academy, obviously, but uh, yeah, we, our families, know each other, so, um, but yeah, so week 11 or something, week 11, week 12, something like that we had another female that got cycled in. She had a shoulder injury, so that was. That was different, but only female in the entire academy class. Obviously was interesting also, but I pretty much got treated like one of the guys. I got pretty lucky with our, our class did they put you in leadership roles?
Speaker 2:yes, I was gonna say I have noticed just about every academy class the females. They will put them in leadership roles and I don't know if it's to toughen them up, or usually it's the adjutant um.
Speaker 6:If they have military experience, I guess they'll be. What were you? Squad leader. Squad leader, yeah, squad leader yeah. But yeah, I think it is to help just get them incorporated so they don't feel left out, or forgotten about?
Speaker 2:I guess I don't know, we had some females in my academy class too, and there was only one that made it, but she was the class leader. She made it through with us. The one of them, I remember we were all lined up in the hallway and she had you know, they were doing uniform inspection and everything and she had her orange gun and her duty belt upside down it's all hanging out.
Speaker 6:I was like yeah, she's not gonna make it she she dropped out during firearms qual so, and not because she was a chick, just because she didn't have it.
Speaker 2:If it had been a guy, she wouldn't have made it yeah, so.
Speaker 6:Right. We have seen our fair share of officers who could possibly carry their gun upside down at any point in time.
Speaker 4:That just didn't make it thank God, ain't that the truth? So y'all were in the same class and and did y'all police the same agency then?
Speaker 6:not at first. No, I actually was with Brea PD at first and he was with Richmond PD, the big city, yep yeah, the whole 45,000, that one, well, it's bigger than here that's right.
Speaker 4:You know Richmond and you know with Eastern out there I go up there a lot. I've got a, I've got a daughter in school there and up there quite a bit and I feel pretty safe up there. You know, I don't seems like you see somebody and I think one of the deals with that is there is a police officer everywhere because of the academy there being their cruisers going to eat some here and there. So it just looks like there's thousands of officers out there. But it's really just because the police academy is stationed there. So that really helps.
Speaker 5:And it also helps too, the fact that you know not only do you have Richmond City Police Department, you've also got Madison County Sheriff's Office. Is there right?
Speaker 4:KSP post seven is there, that's right in the middle of campus.
Speaker 5:Eastern Kentucky University police is right.
Speaker 4:So you've got a plethora of agencies, yeah, and then I everybody come in there for the Academy classes or in-service classes or whatever.
Speaker 6:So yes, and law enforcement officers know like. Whenever you're in Richmond you look at what agency they're from and you know you'll see all different counties and everything else. But the average citizen typically just sees police car.
Speaker 4:Yeah, they don't. Yeah, they don't pay attention. But yeah, I don't know how many wrecks I've driven by, that's not me. I don't know how many wrecks I've driven by, that's not me. It's the first time, you know, this year I had in-service in Richmond, but it was not on campus there, it was over at the Ignite Academy. So I was like, oh my gosh, so I'm here, you get to enjoy the food like Jackson's or something like that. Yet I'm not. I'm not over there, where it's all very strict and weird.
Speaker 6:So it was, it was kind of nice over there, so yeah, We'd love to help his Nana cooks at Jackson's All the law enforcement officers but his Nana's a cook up there, so that's fair to say she's got all the secret recipes and brings them home with her.
Speaker 2:You've had that right. Jackson's? Yeah, you've had. Have you eaten there?
Speaker 4:That's some of the best country food that you'll ever eat.
Speaker 5:My grandmother started out doing that at Opal's Restaurant. I mean, I was a little bitty fella.
Speaker 4:Opal's down in Jackson.
Speaker 5:County it started out. At one point it wasn't Jackson, but Opal's was in the mall, the old Richmond mall I remember that I mean she's been a cook since then and she's still doing it today.
Speaker 4:I want to say they're pork chops. They're as big as the plate and they're incredible. You have to get bone in, though, and then the meatloaf there.
Speaker 6:I'm not deciding advertising there or anything but hey. Jackson's in. Richmond. Hey, we're all in.
Speaker 2:Club whatever you want to, it's fine.
Speaker 6:I still love it. It's good though.
Speaker 4:It really is good there used to be a place. I'm telling my age now back in the 70s and early 80s. When you were just born.
Speaker 4:You remember that it was Ma Kelly's. You remember that? What was it? It was Ma Kelly's, that's the name of the restaurant, uh-huh, and it was a house you actually went in. It's like you walk into somebody's house, you go into the kitchen and they cook and you serve it yourself. And it was kind of unique really. Hmm, and they had everybody. I mean all the students there on campus they visit there. Quite often they had a sign or a name. The walls were just covered in signatures.
Speaker 5:Oh, that's cool it was. That's where you find some of the best food, though, is the little hole-in-the-wall places.
Speaker 4:And you know, Jackson's is that way because all these professors and all the instructors over at the academy that's where they go eat. Oh yeah, Absolutely. I guess we need to keep it a secret. All the three people listening right now. But, it is amazing food.
Speaker 6:They're frontiters though.
Speaker 4:Oh man. There's a plug for.
Speaker 2:Jackson.
Speaker 4:Maybe send your money our way.
Speaker 2:Or just send us a free coupon, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, it's fun. So you were at Richmond, you were just patrol union. What all did you end up doing?
Speaker 5:So I started out there in 2015 and I was just doing patrol, started, I guess I should say this day one, and this is something I've always had an idea that I wanted to do. I always wanted to go in to something that you know would just make me better, and whenever I the first day that I went to Richmond, you know, one of the first questions I asked was do you all have a SWAT team of any type? And they were like, yeah, we have an ERU team, emergency response team and I was like, well, what do I have to do to be on that? They told me pretty much what I had to do is I had to be there for a minimum of three years and I had to have good performance. I would have to show good firearm skills, good tactics and a good you know level head under pressure. So I was dead set that that's what I wanted to do. That was my goal.
Speaker 5:Going in Long story short man, like I went in there and started out just doing regular patrol and had some pretty good calls, and I guess you know sometimes and I'll touch base on this several times tonight but God has a weird way of working in your life and I'm a huge believer in that, and it's kind of funny of some of the times and some of the trainings and stuff that I went to and some of the calls that I was on that there was either an ERU member or someone else that had to do with the team or you know a higher up that just happened to be there to see me work and saw that you know I had a good level head and that you know I showed a little bit better calmness under pressure, I guess, whenever it really mattered and I was able to keep a level head about myself and that stuff really, you know, stayed around really mattered and I was able to keep a level head about myself and that stuff really, you know, stayed around with everybody.
Speaker 5:And they constantly told me, you know well, if it wasn't for that three-year thing, we would take you right now, you know. And finally we got a new chief in. We went from Larry Brock, which Brock was a great chief. He was a little firm but he was always consistent, you know you knew what you had. You know, and that's something.
Speaker 5:I appreciate man Like I don't care if it's good, bad or ugly, but be the same with everybody every single time. You know, don't have four or five in your pocket, that's your favorites, that you know they can get away with murder, so to speak. But then you know, somebody else has, you know know, a small stain in the floorboard of their car from the last person they arrested and they get written up for it. I can't stand stuff like this.
Speaker 5:So we went from brock, who was a great chief, and we went to, uh, ebert, and ebert was a pretty good chief too, um, a little more of the politician side than what brock was, yeah. But you know it's it's just his way of doing things. And I just kind of asked him straight up. I was like you know, if I can outperform a 10-year officer in physical fitness, shooting, thinking ability, tactics, if I can outperform a 10-year guy and me only having a year and a half on, then does that not say something good for me, or is that just bad on him? You know, why would you take him over me just because he's been here for three years, when he doesn't meet the standard like I do?
Speaker 5:you know, so that's just something I ask him. He's like well, maybe it's something we need to roll around in our head. So I kept kind of pushing, kept pushing and finally they just decided you know what, we're going to rewrite the policy, you only have to be off of probation and you have to be approved by every single team member. So, long story short, right about my two year mark, they lifted that three year lock on there mark. They lifted that three-year lock on there and at the time, you know, I was one of the youngest people, time wise, on the police department that actually tried out and got accepted first time around onto the eru team. And, like I said, you know that was a dream for me because I've wanted to do that ever since I was a kid did they have one of the big swAT and like PT tests and all that that you had to go through?
Speaker 5:Yeah, man, so that test it sucked, just to say the least, that test. You had to do a mile and a half run in full gear and it wasn't you know your three-pound ceramic plates, it was you know nine-pound steels, yeah, and it was a full kit and basically they put the vest on you. Usually they put the vest on you, um, usually they hold the tryouts when it's pretty hot outside. It's not a cool day.
Speaker 5:You start off and you run a mile and a half and once you do that mile and a half, you have no downtime between any of this whatsoever. You immediately throw on an armored helmet, which which adds more weight, and then you grab a door breaching ram and you have to sprint 100 yards with that ram. As soon as you drop the ram, you have to run over into the grass and you have to low crawl on your elbows and knees for 30 yards. Again, this whole time you're wearing full kit. As soon as you jump up, they have whoever at the time it is being the heaviest team member, which for me it was, uh, I believe rob, hiss, uh and rob. It was either rob or chip gray, um, both of which are within about 10 pounds of each other, but rob and chip. Both are about six, five and in. And in full kit.
Speaker 5:I mean they're, you know, pressing 300 pounds or more. Yeah, they just go completely limp, just like you know a dead man thing.
Speaker 2:So you're dead weight dragging them yeah.
Speaker 5:So you have to dead weight drag this guy for 30 yards.
Speaker 2:Gosh.
Speaker 4:As soon as you drop him. That's worse than those dummies down there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Or 150 or whatever.
Speaker 5:So you dead man dragged this guy for 30 yards. And as soon as you're done with that, um, you have to do 10 burpees. And then, after you do the 10 burpees, you have to do 10 push-ups. And then, after the 10 push-ups, you have to run over to a bar that was anchored to the side of a concrete wall and you have to do 10 pull-ups. Um, after you're done with that, they hand you the ram again and you have to climb four flights of steps to the top of the tower and then traverse your way back down those four flights of steps and sprint to the finish line, which was roughly about 25 yards from the door, and then drop the ram. When the ram hits the ground, your time stops.
Speaker 6:I could not do that.
Speaker 2:No, I'm pretty sure I would have went in the cardiac arrest way back at the beginning somewhere.
Speaker 6:So funny story. This put me in thought of that Police Academy. Everybody has to jump over the wall, shut up. I jumped over the wall On the ropes course. What is it? I don't know, it's just the wall, a six foot wall you just have to run and it over.
Speaker 5:This isn't even the rope score. This is just the six-foot wall that you have to jump over.
Speaker 6:You just have to prove you can jump over a six-foot wall. This build. I don't remember that yeah.
Speaker 4:I didn't have to do that. You want to know what Really yeah.
Speaker 6:I didn't have to do that.
Speaker 2:Well, let me just.
Speaker 4:I'm 5'2, so I had to do the vertical jump in the in the class, but they took no y'all they took it out that was in my class like I started. I had to do it in in the initial pops and then back to him and took it out well, I'm not upset now well a lot of people did what happened on your wall.
Speaker 6:I tried to jump over the wall and all that you could see was my well, I tried to go by the wall like three or four times and didn't make it. I basically just ran into the side of it. It wasn't that bad, I was trying, but it was but now I'll be honest, the entire academy class, because I was fairly fit, like I I wasn't the last one at everything.
Speaker 6:I wasn't the one I was on sidelines throwing up. I got everything done, just like they did. They were all cheering me on, thank God, because they were like I know, you can do it, you're just short, that's all. Come on, I finally learned to hook my foot and then I dragged myself up over the top and just fall over. They're like yeah, it was a whole wind for the whole class.
Speaker 4:Basically.
Speaker 1:I just ran inside the wall. Nevertheless, back in the? U, I could not If I could have ran through that wall, I would have been a star I would have gotten up and done it easy.
Speaker 6:I could not do EREU.
Speaker 2:They got rid of that that year then because I went through in 16. I don't remember the ropes course honestly, we did the ropes course.
Speaker 6:I'm assuming they're talking about the leadership ropes course same one they're talking about the one that's like 40 foot in the air.
Speaker 5:I don't remember so anyway, doug, you were asking, you know what was the times for that. They want you pretty much to come in somewhere around 18 minutes or less, anytime, I mean anything. The next day. No. So the bad thing is, that was just the PT test, yeah.
Speaker 2:That day is a long day, so you're pretty good at running too.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so all of this has to transpire usually within about a four to five-hour period, because you have numerous people doing it and the only downtime that you have is while the other people are doing the test, which is not a lot of time because you know they have different people. That's timing you and sometimes a lot of you are running at the same time. It's just that the person behind you started, you know, four or five minutes after you did, to stay behind you. So all of this transpires within about a four or five hour period. I mean it's a long day, but after you leave there, they look at your times, they notate everything, how you did, what was your mentality, because you know even during the test they will ask you questions. You know, like when is it safe to perform a tactical reload? You know what are the three things that you need before you're going to reload your weapon or do anything like that. You know they're looking for. You know time, distance, cover you know, things of that nature.
Speaker 5:So they're asking you all these questions that have to do with policing and tactics.
Speaker 2:To see if your physical fatigue is going to cause mental fog.
Speaker 5:Yeah, exactly so then, after you're done with the pt test, uh, basically you jump straight in your cruiser. There's no lunch time, there's no break time. You've got water and maybe a snack that you brought granola bar for me. That's what I had brought. We drove from there straight to the range and the range was only about 15 minutes away roughly y'all shoot down the river too, or is that somewhere else, uh?
Speaker 5:that's somewhere else. Um, we had our own range that's dedicated for richmond. Um, once you get to the range, again, your full kit, except now you have all your weapons and stuff with you, all your ammo. You completely get kitted up for this firearms qualification and the way that our range is set up. It's not just your typical flat range. We have what we refer to as the eagle's nest up on a hillside and it's not super far away. It's 200 yards, but 200 yards for the average person with nothing but a 16-inch you know rifle is a fair distance, that's a long shot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a pretty good shot.
Speaker 5:Especially when you're running iron sights. They don't give you a red dot or anything to run that day You're running irons. So they tell you to start at the range house. The eagle's nest is about 100 yards and it's uphill. I mean it sucks, and it's hard terrain, it's not, you know, there's no dedicated way to get there, it's just. You know, hey, climb this hillside. So you sprint in full gear up to the eagle's nest, lay down prone. It's 200 yards and they have multiple targets set up all the way down to the zero-yard line and you have to engage however many rounds they tell you to put on each target. So you engage at the 200, sprint down to this spot that they've got marked for the 150, all rough terrain. Again, it doesn't get to flat terrain until you get to the 100-yard mark. So sprint down to the 150, numerous rounds on a few targets. Again Afterwards you have to run up to the 100. They give you a couple targets, then you start moving between different barricades and obstacles amongst the range. So it's not you know, now I'm going to travel from the 100 yard line straight to the you know 10 or 5 or wherever they stop me in
Speaker 5:it's well, I have to bounce back and forth across this 50 yard wide range, right over this 100 yard span, to figure out you know where I'm going, how to move. I have to communicate. They're talking to you and yelling at you and throwing stuff at you the whole time. Um, they're just trying to see how you handle it. You know how you handle the pressure, if they can get you too amped up or not. But uh, you go down through there. You're doing mad changes and transitions and reloads and all this other stuff and they're grading you on everything that you know how to do. Are you tack reloading behind cover? Are you basically firing until that rifle runs completely dry? Are you using time, distance and cover? To your advantage?
Speaker 5:Are you overexposing yourself around these barricades? What are you doing the whole time they're asking you questions, packing you on the helmet with a fully loaded magazine. And at one point in time I actually it's a selection.
Speaker 4:You're in selection. It don't matter how good you are. Those questions are seeing it's like a SF or something selection course, more than just a qualified Nothing course. Yeah, just to qualify.
Speaker 5:Nothing to that extreme. I wouldn't even really Shorten down, yeah, I wouldn't even compare it to like a SF selection course, because you know, through camp and other things, and just you know history, I have met a lot of the guys that have been, you know, former Green Beret SEALs. You know a couple of guys that have been Delta Mar Seals. You know a couple of guys that have been Delta Marta Sock. You know this, that and the other, and I mean man, those guys are a whole different breed. Like you know, they make our test look like it wasn't nothing but a play date. These three-week, four-week rucks and stuff.
Speaker 4:It's on the same principle. Those questions they're asking you under stress. They're tapping you on the forehead and asking you questions to see if, yeah, you may pass the physical, you may shoot the best. But those questions and seeing how you handle it, see if you're going to be a good fit for that team, is what else they're looking at too. And this is all just to get you to go to SWAT school too.
Speaker 5:Yeah, Right, I mean, which school did you go to? So I went to Norris Tactical.
Speaker 4:That's where I was. Is that Louisville or?
Speaker 5:close to Louisville. Yeah, so now they actually have multiple locations. Okay, norris has actually become one of the biggest training agencies in the United States right now. I'll touch on them here later on. If we come back around to that, it's a great place to go to Love those guys. But so at one point during this firearms we never know what they're going to do to us and they'll surprise you.
Speaker 5:I got up and at one point I was at about the 20 yard line and I had run out of rifle ammo, and it's set up that way. I was supposed to run out when I did and I drew my pistol. So I transitioned the pistol and I start engaging the rest of the targets. While I'm engaging hostage targets, a dude just reaches up and starts leaning on my shoulder, talking in my ear, trying to throw me off balance. Well, simultaneously, another guy that was actually ended up being on the team too. His name's Joe Lane, one of the funniest and greatest people you'll ever meet in your entire life. But Joe actually empties a mag in a full auto system right over my shoulder and just covers me with the brass Hot brass. So then, after I get, done with that spot.
Speaker 5:I shoot over the range just a couple of feet and start engaging this next target and I see this little black thing come over my shoulder and I looked and I was like crap, it was a flashbang. So I mean, they're doing all of this throughout this entire time. You're being berated, you're being hit with flashbangs, you're being tapped on the helmet with magazines, you're being asked questions, pushed around and smacked on you know, gunfire all around you doing different things, and they're just trying to see. Like through all of this, can you keep your cool? So after you do that, they grade all of your targets and then, when you're done, you go directly into a interview with the team and it's the current team and you're basically sitting there by yourself in front of all these guys and none of them are there to really be. You know bad to you. Like you know, we patrol together, so they're good dudes, but at the same time, like they're not just going to accept me if I'm lacking in a huge area. So basically, afterwards you sit down and they ask you this 20-minute questionnaire and they'll post stuff at you that's not normally on their papers.
Speaker 5:How do you feel about the fact that you may not come home. Are your wife and kids aware of that? How do they feel about it? Have you spoke with them about it? And you have to do this interview. And again, all of this is just boom, boom, boom. One right after the other. It's not a. You know, I have X amount of hours between this event and this event to prepare. It's well, you know, let's hit all of it at one time, just as fast as we can hit it.
Speaker 6:And they all had to accept you Like If one member of the team said, no, that was pretty important.
Speaker 2:That was the place it had to be unanimous.
Speaker 6:Because if it wasn't, then you've got one guy who might not have your back. I guess that's tough. Makes sense.
Speaker 4:That is tough. That means you've had to treat everybody good and been showing off for these guys that you can handle yourself way before you knew you even wanted to go to that school. They were judging you because obviously that would. They could come back and be like you know, back when he first started I saw him here or I or he really made me mad or something on this or something, you never know how guys think, and I know they're forgiving I know you were a bunch of type a's anyway.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely, we're going to butt heads.
Speaker 5:but you know, and again, man, like you know, sometimes it's just kind of funny how God works, because, you know, it was like a month before that they sent me to this training course with the FBI. And do you remember when they demoed the tower that was on EKU? Yes, and they rebuilt everything. So they were in the middle of demoing that tower and they basically told us, like you know, look, if you all want to use this place as a training site, you're talking about the top, yeah, so they was like you know, you can go in there and bust through doors and all kinds of crap, because we're demolishing the whole tower anyway and then redoing all of it.
Speaker 5:So we were like, okay, cool. So so the FBI says that they're running this training course and it's basically an active shooter scenario course. I had never been to anything like that before. It was probably one of the coolest classes I ever went to. But these guys go all out, they go in there and there was debris everywhere. They had drug furniture out into the hallways. They had torn down stuff, fixtures and everything out of the ceilings to make it hard to traverse through there. They had killed some of the lights so that the hallways were dark. I mean, they went all out. That's awesome.
Speaker 5:Well, one of the things that they had done was they set up a bunch of traps and they had tripwire setups and pressure plates under some of this furniture. Wow, so we were going down this hallway and one of the guys that was on the team he looks at me he was like I'm just letting you know like they've asked me to grade how you act today and I was like great, you know, I didn't have enough pressure that I'm supposed to get good grades today now you know my, my dream of being on the team is riding on this.
Speaker 5:So we're going down this hallway and I looked and I seen this little black device underneath of a piece of furniture. And I looked and I said bomb move. And we took off into separate doorways and gained cover. Well, that instructor comes out of nowhere and he was like you tell me right now where you see a bomb. I was like it's under the corner of that piece of furniture right there. He's like how did you see that? I was like to be perfectly honest with you. Honest with you, like I ain't gonna sit here and lie or act like I'm a super cop. It's about pure luck. I hit it with my light and I was like I don't look right. So I yelled out bomb move. And we took off. He was like good job.
Speaker 5:So, um, that was one of the highlights of that event. Uh, to end the day, same dude that's supposed to be grading me looks at me and he goes. Well, I want you to lead this last event. We have no clue what the fbi is about to put us through. So they're like well, we're gonna see what we can throw y'all for a loop. So they put us in this dark hallway. Um and I don't want to make it seem like you know again that I was super coppering, because I wasn't by far. You know there was some scenarios that we did that day that we were doing simunition, which for those of you that don't know what simunition is, basically little plastic rounds, but these guns sound, operate and fire a projectile.
Speaker 2:It's a soap projectile, right yeah.
Speaker 5:But it actually is. It's expelled by actual black powder. So these rounds have black powder in them. So the smell, the operation of the gun, the action, everything works exactly like a real firearm. And you know, I got hit that day by a couple of those projectiles, just like everybody else in the class did. You know, there's sometimes that you just can't help it, you just run into an unlucky angle. I mean, it is what it is.
Speaker 5:And that last scenario it turns out that we got to this doorway and this dude had simulated that he had killed his boss and had rigged people up in the doorway and wired them together on a bomb. Oh, so we get to this doorway and these people are standing in the doorway and won't let me through the door. But I can hear the shooter behind them inside the room. So I was like you know, can you all move? And they just shake their heads no, they won't even communicate with you, they're ordered not to. And uh, I was like okay, you know, are you wired to a device? And they just shook their heads, yes, and all of a sudden the shooter's like if it, I'm done trying to talk with you, I'm gonna start killing people in five, four, three, two, and I didn't know what else to do. So I was like you know I'm not trained for this, I haven't went to bomb school or anything. But if I don't do something then you know this scenario set up that we all die. So you gotta do something. So I just dumped my gun in between both of them's head, come down on target and put five rounds in this dude's chest.
Speaker 5:He falls over my teammate that was grading me that day, that was on the ru team, follows me through the doorway, smokes the dude in the opposite corner and, luckily enough, you know I got good grades on that scenario. And you know, simulated saving the day and being the hero, you know cop. But he went back and he told the team. You know like, hey, this guy's got a good head on his shoulders. And you know again, god just set me up in the right place at the right time. You know I just I got lucky enough that I got selected for things. I wasn't even supposed to go to that class. Somebody else dropped out last minute and they come to me and they were like, hey, you want to go to this. I was like, sure, why not? That's awesome.
Speaker 2:And I thought the FLETC active shooter school was cool.
Speaker 4:It's weak yeah.
Speaker 2:It is now compared to that.
Speaker 4:I drove all the way to Wattsburg for my active shooter stuff, the first one we all had to go, me and Joe, and yeah, I was running through the basement. It was a two-story. The scenario was upstairs, I'm the last guy in, you know, I've got the rear guard. I was like I want to go. I want to be last this time Because we was tired. We'd run out on how many scenarios? And sure enough, to speed things up, the guy comes around to let us know we're up top, just fires a round down to get everybody's attention. That stinking Sim round hit me right in the ankle.
Speaker 5:He wasn't even trying to, so that accidentally out of it.
Speaker 4:I was like I'm out. No no no, you weren't supposed to get something out of it. I was like I'm out. No, no, no, you weren't supposed to get something out of it. I was like I'm out. It was just how it goes sometimes.
Speaker 2:Accidents. I felt so bad for Bert when we done rapid deployment because they picked him to be the op for or whatever. He was the bad guy hostage taker. You dump in, take your corners, shoot. So he was getting shot. You know they give you that front face mask but you know we're in a room like this. He's in the middle of the hostage, so he's getting back of the head with salmon rounds all day long. Baseball.
Speaker 6:I took the stops course and got hit in the leg right above my kneecap. And I wore a a look like a bullseye. How long it was bruised it was literally weeks, it was over a month and you.
Speaker 2:You were talking about taking just a bad angle or get catching a bad angle. Sometimes you can't stop scores. When we went through it, that opened my eyes quite a bit because there was one where he was ordered. You know, the op was ordered to take a shot as soon as my door popped. Well, the guy that was shooting, I mean he could shoot the balls off of a net at 40 yards. So I mean, as soon as my door popped and I leaned out, he hit me right in the goggles. I mean I was like well, I'm done. This traffic stops. That was your day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like wait, I haven't even made it out of the car yet.
Speaker 4:Our buddy Danny, who was on the show earlier. He and I went to like so many academy classes together. We were roommates in the academy and, you know, retired at the same time, all that stuff. I think it was our third or fourth in-service we had. We were doing stops or something and high-risk something, and I was the driver of the Op 4. I'm left-handed so my gun was down here. I reached out like that. I didn't have the gloves on, you will believe, with those.
Speaker 6:I was silly enough to just wear regular blue jeans that day. They were like you should wear jogging pants and something a little thicker. Wear regular blue jeans that day, and they were like you should wear jogging pants and something a little thicker. I found out that day.
Speaker 5:Yeah, you've learned. I regretted that decision, you know. I mean we've dug them out of people's skin in training before when we were training up there at the depot, at the CQT houses. I mean, you know, if you catch one of those, close range.
Speaker 6:You're sitting over the knife for the next five minutes, digging into your teammates, which is if we didn't get enough of the simunitions and stuff. We own a tactical business too and do tactical training and he does simunitions like once a month or something like that he got one up the nose hole and came up it was the cut of your mouth.
Speaker 5:So they pulled the trigger on me as my mask accidentally fell off, and this was a female officer that works for Lexington.
Speaker 5:She was actually involved in this recent officer-involved shooting with Guy House. But she was training with me and when I started to go down, I mean she'd come through the door, did everything. She was supposed to put three or four rounds in my chest. I started to fall. Well, mid-fall my mask popped off, but she had already broke the trigger. Well, that round went up my nose and all of a sudden my nose just went to pouring blood.
Speaker 3:I mean you know that thing just like ripped through my nose.
Speaker 5:Well, I stood up, we cleaned up the blood, broke down the scenario with them. I was like, man, my nose is like super clogged up right now. And I was like, well, when I did, I felt it hit in the back of my sinuses and I spit it out on the floor. She was like are you kidding me? I was like no, I'm dead serious. Like that thing was in my sinuses.
Speaker 6:It doesn't help that one of the other I'm going to joke, common Neanderthal students walks over and picks it up and she's like bleh.
Speaker 4:That's like the Carlos Havcock shooting through the scope. I'm like if you shoot through the nose hole.
Speaker 6:The first thing she said when I walked through the door she was like I shot him up the nose. I was like what.
Speaker 5:She was freaking out, man, because when I play these scenarios, you know and I'm the bad guy, I believe that you know, as a trainer if you're just a nonchalant individual when you're playing, you know that demon that they're supposed to be facing that day, you're not doing your students any good. No, so when I'm playing it up like I'm playing it up, I'll yell at them, scream at them, ball up my fist, I'll push them Like I go at them hard. And on the other end of the spectrum, though, is when they shoot me like I play it out, that I'm actually shot Like I will not respond to them. I will not help them move me if they have to drag me out of the room, I will not respond to them. I will not help them move me if they have to drag me out of the room.
Speaker 6:They get nothing. If I'm dead, I'm dead. That's awesome, and if you're not, then you'll fight back with them still until you're dead.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I'll fight with them until they get me under control. And you know she was yelling at me. She was like he's actually bleeding and I was like nothing. I wouldn't give her anything.
Speaker 4:And she was like the scenario was over. And one of the other guys that I've been training for over a year he was like did you dig?
Speaker 2:your corner she was like actually hurting. I was sitting there and I was like I'm not giving you nothing, he said.
Speaker 6:I laid there and was like nope by the time I got up, there's this eight or nine inch puddle of mud on the floor and she thought she killed me.
Speaker 5:I was like look at it happen. It was a simple accident. You didn't mean to. That's part of training, Keep training.
Speaker 6:I'm serious, you got to train. I feel like we didn't put the resources in down here in our training, that's with a lot of departments, and I will say with my first department I'll go ahead and say I don't care who I make mad. I got made fun of at certain times because I took training too seriously or I would actually go in and implement tactics and some of the officers were like, okay, but the house is abandoned, we're just checking it before they bulldoze it down. And I'm like, okay.
Speaker 2:But what if? So?
Speaker 6:let's just assume, and I got made fun of with that. Well, when I transferred and went to Richmond, the first call I went to it was a guy that had died basically on his porch steps, and I went in and started to because at the first apartment I was by myself most of the time. I went in and started searching the apartment and I had another officer who ended up being on ERU with him later he came through right behind me and started assisting with searching the apartment and I was like what is this? Like what do you? And he'd say I go right, you go left. And he he'd yell clear and I'm like there's communication, like it is different at different departments. That same exact officer.
Speaker 6:Funnily enough I'm not his name, I didn't know his colorblind. We were on the range together and they put all the officers under high stress, like they go above and beyond at Richmond. I will say that high stress, long gun training. That day we pulled up in our cruisers and had to jump out and had to just run down that was how many? What is it? 100 yards, something like that usually and had to just go through the course and you know.
Speaker 6:Be behind a wall, shoot through a window, get down, yell, communicate with each other, you know. Move, moving, move, you know whatever. And he looks over at me and we're going down the course together and he starts yelling which targets? And I'm like the red targets. He's like, okay, which targets? The red targets. Which targets? I'm like the effing red target, stupid. He goes. I'm colorblind, stupid. I was like, oh, left, left targets, left targets. I felt so bad I had no idea.
Speaker 2:Who's supposed to do that? There's a guy that I work with up there now that's colorblind, so you won't hear him. If there's a vehicle that he's trying to call out a bolo or something, for it'll never be a color. It's always a light colored vehicle or a dark colored vehicle. It's either light gray or it's because I can't tell. He's like the only way I can tell what if it's a red or green light, is the position on the?
Speaker 4:light. I used to think it was silly. There on the, I used to think it was silly. There wasn't no such thing as colorblindness, but I think it is.
Speaker 6:I found out that day.
Speaker 5:It was the truth and not the hard way that's some good information to have so, you know, touching base on what she's saying, though, with some of these guys, you know just thinking that doing stuff the right way, even though there's indicators that say that nothing might, you know, may or may not be there. You know that stuff, that nothing may or may not be there, you know that stuff, again, god works in mysterious ways. You know, when we were going through the academy, we were what probably five, six weeks in, daniel got shot.
Speaker 6:We were walking by the officer memorial when we got the phone call actually. Oddly enough I'll never forget that that he had just gotten shot.
Speaker 4:We got a phone call. I know where I was, we were, you know he and I were. I mean, it was like I was at school and I was like, what time is this? Yeah, it was in the fall, right.
Speaker 6:Yes, november.
Speaker 4:Yeah, november, and I remember it freaked me completely out. I was like numb, almost, you know like what.
Speaker 6:Yeah, so close to home.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and there's nothing, man that really prepares you for that, or a phone call like that, especially that early in your career. Because you know, you always think when you want to go into law enforcement or you know military or anything like that, you always think you know, hey, there's a possibility that I might not go home or one of my guys might not go home. I had thought of that numerous times before, you know, I had done security for a few years. I had worked at the corrections facilities for a few years. Um, I had worked at the corrections facilities for a few years. You know, it wasn't like I was green, like I had experience under my belt and it's something that you always talk about and think about. But nothing can prepare you for that actual event. And I can remember, like, just how numb I felt and I'm not gonna sit here and act like you know, I was best friends with daniel. I wasn't not even close, um, I had met him just a couple times, here and there, in passing. Whenever, you know, I was going through the process to go into the academy. Nice guy, uh, good, good officer, um, you know, good husband, good father, and I remember Jan called me that morning and she gave me the news and I was like, well, I mean, is he okay?
Speaker 5:And she was like we don't know. And I was like I mean what do you mean? You don't know? And she was like, well, he's in pretty bad shape. And the only thing she could really say was she was like just pray for him. And I was like, okay, I mean, it's like just pray for him. And I was like, okay, I mean it's like that's all I got, that was it. And then it's just like it is with the rest of policing. You know, you go through these traumatic events or you get this bad news and then it's oh well, on to the next thing. Like there's no downtime. You ain't got time for that right now.
Speaker 2:You don't have time to decompress.
Speaker 6:No time to think about anything.
Speaker 5:Okay, well, one of your dudes just got shot. You don't know anything about it. One of your teammates is down. Okay, well, let's go do PT in the academy for the next hour and a half. And too bad, you just don't know nothing. That's just what it was. So you know, we go through the rest of the day and then all of a sudden you know we get phone calls like hey, he's gone. So we get phone calls like hey, he's gone. So for the longest time nobody talked about it.
Speaker 5:And again, you know I mentioned joe earlier. Like some people, I'll actually call out by name. Uh, some people I won't, but joe man. I I cannot say enough good about that dude.
Speaker 5:When you, if you ever get the chance to meet joe lane, he is one of a kind. There will never be another joe lane, not even close. He is an absolute wild man and he does not care how big, how bad you are. He is man to man with you, no matter what position you're in. I don't care if it's joe schmoe from the streets, I don't care if it's upper brass, I don't care if it's Joe Schmo from the streets, I don't care if it's upper brass, I don't care if it's a lieutenant colonel in the military, it does not matter to him. You're a man, you're on the same level as him and he's going to treat you right. But Joe, finally now, joe was one of Daniel's best friends. You know, they had time together on the weekends. They hung out, they smoked cigars together, watched movies. So you know, finally Joe steps up and he's like man, what the hell are we doing? And he was like we're not doing Daniel's legacy any good by sweeping the things that he possibly did wrong that day under the rug, like we should be learning from this and we should be talking about it. And he was like you know, straight up, daniel messed up. That's just how he put it. And he was like you know, I wish he wouldn't have and he knew better.
Speaker 5:But from what everybody has said, what happened was is Daniel got to that place looking for the guy that shot him because of other felonies that this guy had committed. Daniel was a detective at the time. He was after this dude and when he got there, the guy at the front door come out and he was like there's nobody else in there. The guy had told the guy at the front door if you let that officer in here, I'm going to kill him. So he already knew and the dude still lied and told Daniel nobody's in this house. They had no clue. The guy was in the back room of these Section 8 housing units with a girl held hostage and he had told her if you say anything, if you let him know you're here or we're here, I'll kill you too. So straight up, man Daniel goes in nonchalant, doesn't pull his weapon, nothing, he's radio actually there, yeah, he believed it, that nobody was in that apartment.
Speaker 5:And he goes in and clears the initial room because you know it's small section, eight housing. Uh, the living room and kitchen is one open area together and then you have a side bathroom door. And he went through the living room, looked around, looked through the kitchen, looked through the side bathroom door and then when he stepped into the last doorway, which was the bedroom, when he stepped through that doorway the dude stuck the gun directly to Daniel's temple and squeezed through, killed him Straight up. Lack of tactics you don't believe anybody when they tell you a house is clear. It's never clear until you know for a fact it's clear. So you know there's always one person there and when you find one, you look for two, when you find two, you look for three. There's always a plus one factor until you know for a fact nobody's in that structure.
Speaker 5:And unfortunately man like he just got complacent and he went through and what happened happened?
Speaker 6:But you know something Joe taught, and he's right it's on the trainers too, for allowing complacency to become so common. Yeah.
Speaker 6:At my first apartment complacency. If you wasn't just chill then you were over the top. Yeah, I fired my taser my first day by myself on the streets. Because it turns out later on the guy actually had a gun in his waistband. He had stolen it from his grandpa. But I kind of caught some flack off of that because, well, we knew that you were going to pull the. You know we were going to pull a taser or shoot somebody. I mean, you're a female. That was kind of the. You know that doesn't make any sense. I got in foot pursuit. I chased after the dude back behind Goodwill. He cuts over to go back into a wooded area and he meets a barbed wire fence, turns around, throws his fists up, turns around, throws his fists up. I pulled my taser out, didn't tase him at that point in time because I'm thinking well, I'm going to fight him because I'm not going to use my taser because I'm a girl.
Speaker 2:But see that right there, that's a mentality that we all have. Yes, it is. You've got this Batman belt full of tools.
Speaker 6:You do.
Speaker 2:But what's your first initial thing? No, I'm going to fight him and that's exactly what I fought.
Speaker 6:And I came home mad, just as mad as I could be that day. Talking to him, I said, listen, I started to tase him and I didn't. I started to put it back in the holster and drop my fist and just fist, fight him right back there and arrest him. He had a warrant. That's why he was running. I was familiar with him. Well, he falls back because he gets tangled up in the barbed wire fence. He starts to fall backwards and I'm like I taste him after that at some point. But mentally, 48, 72 hours, things get foggy and I'm like I don't remember why I taste him, but I remember something else made me draw and taste him. I didn't taste him when he threw his fist up and started coming at me. Then he falls backwards and I taste him.
Speaker 6:Something happened. I wasn't allowed to wash my body cam. They were like you're going to probably end up getting wrote up over this, like had me all stressed out over it, and I was like I didn't tase him for no reason and they were like you have to tell me now. I'm not going to tell you anything until 48, 72 hours from now. That's whenever you are supposed to talk to me about it, and that's when I'll be back to talk to you about it. See, that mentality gets you not very good friends in the law enforcement realm.
Speaker 6:You created it, you created your enemies. I created my enemies right there.
Speaker 2:A good department will have your back in that situation, but if you buck the system at a bad department that has bad leadership.
Speaker 6:That will come back to bite you, and that's what happened to me on day one. That was my red sign. Come to find out. I remember seeing it on the footage Before I even got to see my footage. I'm like, go back and look, was he reaching in his waistband? And they were like, well, you can kind of see. And I was like, well, let me see it. Like three days later we go to rewind it. And I said he was reaching in his waistband. Well, why can't you tell us that three days ago? I'm like, do we need to go back to the academy? I mean, what do you mean? That's in mental health class. It takes 48 to 72 hours. You have cortisol that dumps. Do I need to go through all this Again? I created my enemies right there because I was expected to just lay down and take a write-up. Yes, I don't know.
Speaker 4:But come to find out. It sounded like they wanted you to fail at the beginning.
Speaker 5:There were one or two there that absolutely did.
Speaker 6:There were one or two and I won't get into it right now, but there were one or two that absolutely hated my guts and I never even knew them beforehand, but it was because and I won't say the term they nicknamed me. Certain things that had no business being nicknamed for me Gave me a really hard way to go. Like I said, come to find out. I taste him and it was in the body cam footage he was reaching and they found out. One of the other officers told me that I went to the academy with. He was like, by the way, they didn't tell you this, but I took a stolen gun police report from his grandfather. He stole the handgun from him earlier that day. I mean I knew now. I didn't arrest him at that point because he had been arrested so many times. He rolled out of the wires and broke the taser wires and then I get hung up in the baudoir fence and I'm still trying to go after him. But you know.
Speaker 5:So just to give everybody that might be listening you know a little bit of idea of what she's saying, because she's not just trash-talking these guys.
Speaker 6:No.
Speaker 5:These are the same type of people that would be sitting in a public restaurant and pull their taser out in a public restaurant and point it at the TV with the laser on, with Obama on the TV, and exclaim out loudly that's not my effin president and this is an officer in uniform.
Speaker 6:Yeah, they had public complaints on them and then but what I'm coming out?
Speaker 4:well and yeah that's yeah and we've all, we've all worked with that time no, yeah, officer.
Speaker 6:I mean, we just never should have been a cop in the first place, exactly yeah, and and that you know, and unfortunately that was one of the only aspects of my career that being a female really hindered me. Leanne Boyle I was on the department with her, one of a kind. I had some really really good mentors at that department. Honestly, that just shaped me to be who I am today, even me being former law enforcement. I mean, they really taught me a lot about overcoming stuff like that and not letting people you don't let people get you down just because they're doing something that's wrong. You've got to overlook that and just brush it under the rug and realize that's their shortcomings and, you know, go on about it. But again, honestly, that was even less of me being a female and more of what.
Speaker 2:Standing up for yourself is really what it was you stood up.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And them being very, very bad human beings, not just bad cops.
Speaker 2:And in this profession there is a stigma on female officers. And you better not complain, because everybody knew you were going to complain and I will say that not all females are cut out for the job, but not all males are cut out for the job either. That's true.
Speaker 6:That's true.
Speaker 2:So, and I mean I've worked with several guys that shouldn't have been the police. I went through guys in the academy that didn't make it through PTO because they were cowards, I mean. So the same goes for both genders as far as that goes.
Speaker 5:It does, man. I mean and I'll build on that right now so you know you can't help but question, especially, you know, as a male officer, some of these little guys come through, they're still male and you talk about the stigma and you're like, okay, you know he's a little guy, is he going to be able to handle this stuff, right? But then some of the female officers come through and you look at them and you're like, I mean, is she going to be able to handle herself? I mean, you know you look at it in both aspects, both genders. But you know I've got I ain't going to call him by name, but we had an officer. That man, like this guy couldn't have got me off of him in training with my hands tied behind my back.
Speaker 6:I mean, he was a joke, he had a beat.
Speaker 5:I've seen him actively sit on the side of the road with active domestic calls where people were getting their hind ends handed to them at home, and he would sit there and wait for another officer to pass him on the way to that call before he would jump in behind him and respond.
Speaker 2:Just so he wouldn't be first.
Speaker 5:Yeah, because he was afraid. But you know, like one of the things with her, you know, we had just barely started talking in the academy and you know we always kept it professional, never did anything while we were at the academy, didn't have nothing to do with each other. We wouldn't team up with each other unless they made us. You know, we had nothing to do with each other at that academy.
Speaker 5:That's respect for the academy, honestly To the point that the instructors finally found it out at the end of the academy and they said you know, normally this is a big thing that's frowned upon, but with you two, the way you treat each other like we're good, don't say nothing about it yeah, because the policy was not during the academy and they're like that.
Speaker 2:Okay, we had some squad leaders in our class that got got demoted because of all that. They were like yeah, yeah, and we actually we didn't there that. They were like I'm graduating, yeah, and we didn't, there was no technicality by the policy.
Speaker 6:There was no fraternization they were like by our policy, like you're good yeah.
Speaker 5:Like nothing happened at the academy and even when we would leave knowing good and well, when we actually got you know deeper into dating, knowing good and well, we were going to leave and in 20 minutes we were going to meet up at home, but we would leave in separate vehicles. We wouldn't even ride together out of the parking lot because we had that much respect for what they had asked us to do.
Speaker 6:They put us together in domestics and everything when we first started talking it was funny because, you know, again, you can't help but question.
Speaker 5:And we were doing this drill one time it's called bull in the ring and basically there was two different versions. There was, you were either in the middle of everybody else by yourself and they would come at you and you just kind of had to deal with what was coming at you. But what they did was they split our class up into halves. Well, half of you were on the inner ring, half of you were on the outer ring. The outer ring's job was to give the inner ring heck. Well, every time you had to fight that person for 30 seconds to a minute and then when the whistle blew, you moved to the next person to your right and then you did it again.
Speaker 5:And we did this with 8, 10, 12 people because they wanted to see. You know, yeah, they were trying to smoke you. So I get to her and I'm like, like you know, I've got a little girl at home and she's got a son at home. I don't want to have to worry for the rest of my policing career if my girlfriend, fiance, wife, whatever, you know, this comes to pass. I don't have to worry about every day if she's capable of handling herself or she's gonna be able to come
Speaker 5:home, we're going to get this up right here so I'm like dude, I'll weigh this chick by 100 and something pounds and you know, I mean I'm not a small guy, I'm a fairly stout guy and I'm like I'm just gonna give her hell, I'm gonna see how she handles.
Speaker 6:And again, being a female, I never once wanted anyone to go easy on me, because that's not how it works on the street, right yeah?
Speaker 5:so I was like man, I'm gonna give her hell and see how this plays out, like I'm gonna make her prove to me that I don't have to worry about her on these streets so I did you know jumper, and them guys were watching I'll get to that same.
Speaker 5:So brian sp was watching and it was hilarious because I got on top of her and pinned her down. Well, I was like, well, I'm just going to like bear my weight on her because, again, you know, I weigh her by over 100 pounds, 126 pounds, yeah, and I was like I'm going to bear down on her and I'm just going to give her hell, like I'm going to make her fight out from underneath of me.
Speaker 5:Dude, all of a sudden I got the sharpest pain in my chest. I squalled out because I was like what the is that she bit the shit out of me.
Speaker 6:It threw him off for such the shortest time that I was able to do the hip thrust and it made him off balance. And then I swept his arm and then I got him off of me.
Speaker 5:I'm not talking about like just a nibble. I had teeth marks for weeks.
Speaker 2:She took off a nibble. She bit me right there on my upper chest.
Speaker 3:She bit the shit out of me and I squalled out and of course my inspector.
Speaker 5:he comes running. He's like what happened? I'm like she bit me and he starts dying laughing. He's like it worked didn't it?
Speaker 6:Yeah, he said I don't care if it's a brick, I don't care if it's a rock, I don't care if it's a hammer. A fair fight is not a thing on the street.
Speaker 4:There you go, congrats.
Speaker 5:So yeah, actually, like you know teeth and nails to get out from underneath somebody, then she'll be okay.
Speaker 4:You should have thought about that when she started spitting her mouth guard out. I did too. I did.
Speaker 5:It was too late. She had already sunk her teeth.
Speaker 6:I spit it out and bit the crap out of him. I didn't give a fuck. He had to fill teeth. She's like my teased.
Speaker 2:There you go.
Speaker 6:Good thing she couldn't eat any of it and honestly, like he and he, I never once asked anybody, like I said, to go easy on me, because that's just shortening yourself in training you know, but Doug, how many times did we fight growing up? I mean, he house a lot and we play around here you go let's put you on there.
Speaker 4:I've known her ever since she was this high, and that's, that's a little little bitty and uh, she's copper headish.
Speaker 5:Put it that way especially on the fang part.
Speaker 4:Yeah she was, she was a good girl. But now I never doubted in my mind. When she became a play saucer I said she'll be all right yeah she's tough, there's no doubt in my mind that she'll be able to handle herself.
Speaker 2:With that being said, do you feel like as a female out on the street because the same goes for little guys like he was talking about do you feel like you were tested more by suspects? And stuff, Because you know you get a guy. That's 6'4", 300 pounds, steps out of a cruiser. It might change somebody's mind, but you get somebody that's 5'3".
Speaker 6:I'll tell you what happened with the whole Taser incident. What that done to me was. It told me that, no matter if I was right or wrong, there were certain people who were going to make me out to be wrong. So I may as well do what I needed to do anyways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, period Exactly.
Speaker 6:If I had to shoot somebody, some people were going to say, oh, it's because she's a little female and she was afraid Whatever, let them talk.
Speaker 2:Our philosophy was always we might be wrong in the morning, but we're right tonight, Right Exactly.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 6:That's never how admin works. Yeah, you know 2020, you know the hindsight is 2020, but, um, I tested, yes, but I had more men cry on me in the back of my cruiser. All I had to do most of the time I don't know why I had mom voice. I could walk up and they'd be yelling and cussing everybody and I'd walk up saying that's enough and they'd be like, yes, ma'am, and then be quiet.
Speaker 5:Yeah it was so funny to see sometimes Because I'd have this guy that was, you know, like outweighing me we went on calls together, to put it in perspective, for you know the people that are going to listen to this later. I mean, I'm six foot and I weigh 230. You know, and I'm a fairly fit guy, I'm not 100 pounds. They'd be sitting in my face. You, mother, effing P-O-L, whip your hind end and everything and she'd come up. That's a no use ma'am.
Speaker 6:Hang her head.
Speaker 5:Wilt and hang their head and go to the back of the crib.
Speaker 6:You kiss your mother with that mouth.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it was like she had mom control over them and I'm like, why does this work like this? Like I'm having to buy the fist fight with this guy. And she just looked at him like shut up and get a car. That's not.
Speaker 6:It did work sometimes, you know, there were, other times there was no.
Speaker 4:I showed up to a call she did about do?
Speaker 6:Are you out of both? He drank both coffees.
Speaker 2:Chugged them, chugged them.
Speaker 6:A lifetime of night shift. I went on a call one day and it was this guy that was on meth and he was like he fell asleep in a car, lot car. And they showed up, of course, and they're like some random guys in the car, and I went to get him out. Of course, like I said, I was by myself a decent amount of the time. Emts got there about the same time I did. He's just barely with it, you know, you can tell he's higher than a kite. He was on meth and he was just waking up and this, that and the other, and he went to flailing his arms, not fighting, but he was just flailing his arms, and I grabbed his hands and I handcuffed him at the time in front of him because I couldn't get him out of the car, to handcuff him, put him on the ground and have him covered on his back.
Speaker 6:This big brute of an emt is like here, I'll help you, I'm sure I don't care, that's fine, he, he's all, but he always goes hands-on anyways. So we, I handcuff and we put him in. We're worried about getting to the hospital because we don't know, like, how close to overdosing he is. He's kind of going downhill somewhat. Well, he lifts his hands up and tries starting to fight everybody in the I'm gonna have to handcuff him to the rails or something.
Speaker 6:Not really thinking for real, not really thinking, I take his hands and I slam them down in his lap. Well, it hit him between his legs and he was like oh. And he starts like I'm like, dude, stop, stop trying to hit people. Of course I'm already in the back. I'm getting like getting like I get car sick. I'm like y'all are going to have to get us to the hospital. We get up there and then I leave and I go on other calls. I get a call from dispatch back. They come over the radio and they say you need to go back up to the hospital because he is claiming that he had $1,000 stolen from his wallet.
Speaker 2:Of course.
Speaker 6:I said tell him that Officer Madden will be right back in just a few minutes.
Speaker 4:She came back over the radio and she said he said disregard, because you were too mean. He didn't want to deal with you.
Speaker 6:Punch him in the balls, okay, I walked in anyways, I was like I'm going to go by. Anyways, I knew the nurse was there that day and I called and I was like is he being?
Speaker 6:good. She's like, yeah, he's been a little bit on and I said I'll be right back up there. And I just walked by and he was like get her away from me, just screaming. I'm like, look, I'm not going to come in there, I'm not going to get y'all agitated again, just chill out. Did you really have something? I knew that's funny.
Speaker 2:You know, ashley had that effect.
Speaker 4:You know we worked with she was yeah she was. Ashley can handle herself.
Speaker 4:She could she had that lower body strength. So she man, one time her and I, I worked with her quite a bit. You know we was walking outside and she didn't have a hat on. You know we was in BDUs or whatever class Bs. We was at Walmart and there was a storm coming and we was looking for a shoplifter. It ran off. We were just walking through the parking lot, this storm's coming, and all of a sudden her hair stands straight up. I was like we got to go.
Speaker 1:We were getting down, we were getting down, we were getting down.
Speaker 4:I was like the best end of camp, getting struck by lightning.
Speaker 6:It was wild, oh man. Yeah, that probably freaked me out too. Speaking of lightning and storms and stuff.
Speaker 6:This is probably the last thing because I really want you to tell them, Camp Hero. But I went on a 1046, an injury accident on 75 going south, right there in Berea. Interstate had went, or on the interstate, sorry, a truck had went, a semi had went through the wall. Turned out there was nobody actually really that injured at that particular thing, but it had. There was debris all over, had the entire interstate shut down except for the emergency lane. It was the type of rain that when I jumped out of my car I instantly had water at the median. I had to jump over the median.
Speaker 6:I had water inside of my shoes. It's great. Yeah, just a great day. Well, this guy blows around the semi and almost hits me with his car and of course, I have never wanted to put a maglite through a window so bad in my life but I didn't frowned upon it is frowned upon so I didn't.
Speaker 2:I held my composure.
Speaker 6:I didn't and I flagged him and stopped him. He he pulled over real quick. He's like I'm sorry I didn't see you. Well, I give him the best like 10 minute time out I can. I had to write him a ticket. I'm like I don't have time to transport him for reckless driving and do all this that and the other. I'm going to write him for a seat belt and careless driving. We'll just deal with that. But we'll give him a.
Speaker 3:I was because I mean again I really I was mad.
Speaker 6:I should just let him go, but I was. He almost hit me. Yeah, well, I'm like you think you know better than that. You're not supposed to do this. You could have hit and killed somebody. You could have hit and killed one of the other officers and there's victims over here and I'm telling him all this stuff and he's like looks terrified. Humans have so many different ways that they project emotions. He was terrified. Okay, whatever, maybe he's had a bad experience before. Turn around and walk back to my cruiser and started to get in and my sergeant said Amanda, what he's like, you might want to wipe your face. I wiped my face, my cheekbone, and I looked at it and I had mascara all over my face. It was so thick running down my face.
Speaker 3:He's so scary, I said. He said he said that poor man, let him go. He was laughing.
Speaker 6:He said just let him go. And I said I'm not letting him go. He said just let him go. I was like why. He said you have scared him. He's never coming back to Kentucky again. I mean dang.
Speaker 2:He still has nightmares From that point on.
Speaker 6:I literally started.
Speaker 1:I used waterproof mascara every time that I went to work after that, Because oh, it was.
Speaker 6:I mean, the look on my face was like. I was like oh.
Speaker 5:You know we've done some talking tonight on. You know some of the bad stuff that you deal with with policing, but it's amazing how she's referred to it several times as a front row seat to the greatest show on earth. It it is. It really. Is man what? Some of the stuff that you see that you never expected to happen. It can be so dangerous and so upsetting sometimes, and then some stuff is just absolutely hilarious and you could exactly human psychology like yeah, some of it absolutely hilarious and you could human psychology, like some of it you could go your whole lifetime without wanting to see, and then some of it you're like I can't believe that I was a part of that once in a lifetime experience what
Speaker 4:do you call it? It's a tragedy, it's like a movie.
Speaker 2:it's like a movie and the public.
Speaker 4:you mean you got all and the public determines you got drama, you got comedy, you got suspense, you got thriller, you got it all.
Speaker 3:And it can all happen in one day? Yeah, absolutely. And all that rolled up into one.
Speaker 4:But it's just like, you're just like living in a movie.
Speaker 6:Yeah, and that movie changes.
Speaker 4:These changes constantly.
Speaker 6:It does. And then you got to turn it all off as soon as you walk through the door and you got kids or a wife or husband or whatever.
Speaker 4:So dealing with. Let's go back to when he was killed, when Ellis was killed. Was it Ellis? Yes, I get them because we went through it you talked about. You know some of the mental side of that. You know. Did the department handle that? Because this was early when talking about your feelings. You know 2015,. You know it's changed a lot since Logan died down here.
Speaker 5:Yeah. So I will say this, man, even in that time frame, you know we joked around and I guess officers deal with stuff in a really odd way. You know one of the ways that you forget about. You know the dead child that you just saw. Or you know the body parts you just picked up off the side of the interstate, or you know whatever the case may be, or you know the child that you saw that's half-starved to death, that you know you had to get them to social services, even though the parents trying, or whatever the case may be. You know one of the things that you do to deal with that and it just kind of it just kind of happens. It's not like you're born with it, but you develop, you know dark humor to deal with it and you know it's really one of the coping mechanisms. You know you'll cut up with other officers and you kind of ignore it. Um, but it was weird, man, because you know when Daniel got shot and the department was dealing with that stuff, you know it was.
Speaker 5:I had a PTO I won't mention him by name super laid-back, chill guy, and he actually told me he was my first phase PTO and I'll never forget this. I've laughed about it numerous times since. But he looked at me at the end of my PTO phase and he said I said you know, going into phase two, what's something that I can do? And he said I want you to keep surprising people. And I was like what do you mean? And he said I want you to keep surprising people.
Speaker 5:And I was like what do you mean? He said well, just to be honest with you, you look like a prick. Yeah, okay, straight up. He was like yeah, but once I get to know you like you're really a really nice, laid-back, easygoing guy and you get along really well with the community. And I told him I was like you know, through my corrections, career and stuff like that, I've learned that it's easier for me to go into a situation with a look on my face like do not mess with that officer, and then them figure out that I'm a super nice guy.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you can always take it down.
Speaker 5:Rather than me go in there looking like I'm a big pushover and happen to regain control, right. So that's you know what I did. But you know that's getting a little off topic. But with this particular PTO he was always really laid back and chill. And then we arrested this girl one day and was taking her to jail and she actually said I'm glad Daniel got shot and I hope it happens to you too.
Speaker 5:And he lost his shit and he turned around and looked at her, started screaming at her and told her she needed to shut the F up right now. And I just looked at him and I was like dude, look, you know. I know I'm new at this and I'm feeding off of what you have taught me. She's just trying to get to you.
Speaker 5:And it's worse, she's pissed off because she's going to jail and she's trying to bring you down with her. Get a hold of yourself, take a walk. And we just pulled over in the parking lot. While I was writing up the citation, he got out and walked around the parking lot and you know, I mean it would have been really easy as the new guy to be like I well, you know he's the pto, let him do his thing. But you know you have to hold each other accountable and stuff too absolutely but it was really weird.
Speaker 5:Walking around that department for the next several months and you know, one minute you'd be talking to a dude and he'd be cutting up laughing, and then, all of a sudden, depression, anxiety just rears its ugly head, you know.
Speaker 2:And an event like that it brings us, because we all walk around 10 feet tall, bulletproof. You know that never happened to us. You see it on TV. You know officers get shot. You know officers, officers die.
Speaker 6:You know it's a dangerous job, but it's not reality because it hasn't happened to you or to somebody until it does yeah and then it's like, well, that's real, that's not yeah, so that could have been me at that, exactly, and it changes your whole thought process.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we lost two officers in a year One with COVID, yeah, and then Logan was killed by a drunk driver on duty. Yeah, you talk about that phone call. You know you talk about getting that call. I was chief. Talk about getting that call. I was chief and probably the hardest thing I've ever went through. It devastated me so delivering death notifications to his father and mother, who was also assistant chief.
Speaker 6:That's bad enough for regular citizens, let alone somebody that you know so well.
Speaker 4:So that trauma, it was crushing to the point where I was sitting in my desk I was like I'm going to die right behind here from stress, yeah, from the heartbreak, from the stress of it, from the I don't know what to do, I don't know how to go on from here. Yeah, and the absolute best thing, somebody went through a, went to the, you know, went to one of the classes up there and had some, you know, some trauma, and they came down and I sent as many people as I could to talk to her and I still continue to go back, but I can still, you know, I don't know if you, you can't get over it. I don't want to get over it, I just need to cope. So those things happened and it was just, it was, it was surreal, it was sickening. I remember throwing up in their yard. Yeah.
Speaker 4:I don't know. And then the whole time I was talking to her, I was going back to Travis when he when he died because I didn't deal with that, right? Yeah, so all this pent up stuff, not to mention the things that we go through as individuals, you know, as officers, through the years. This is at my 20 year mark when all this is happening.
Speaker 6:It's all stacked up.
Speaker 4:And all that stuff came flying out. Yeah, and I'm supposed to be leading this through this and luckily, you know, I got that pretty quick. It was after the funeral and stuff like that and it was just I was able to lean on some former chiefs and some people that came in and be like could make the phone call. I don't know who to call and I don't know what to do. And luckily Eric Johnson with you know, with Supporting Heroes, all that, you know they're great and they came down and basically helped.
Speaker 4:And I just remember, you know we shut down Our community, our sheriff's office, jackson County, you know all these places came down and provided officers while we shut down for that week. And you know we'd get together, do things together, go to counseling class, debrief, stuff like that, just to go through it. Because I learned that lesson I was a lieutenant when Travis died it. Because I learned that lesson, I was a lieutenant when Travis died and I remember we you know you learn lessons from that. Sadly, you hate to have to go through it. So, you know, in the same year, but I was like we, this one's a you know a murder, it was a, you know drunk and I was like we've got to, we can't function, we can't. This was our friend, our brother, so we shut down.
Speaker 4:The mayor blessed it and was like, hey, whatever you need to do. And I remember after the funeral I was like, how do we start back? How do you start this back without? And it was terrible trying to go in and I knew I was like we're wrong, something's wrong. So until we got the grieving process and through some counseling things, we were never going to be okay. And you know, maybe, maybe that's a good segue into Camp Hero and trauma and the things that we go through. But tell us a little bit about what you are doing with them. Are you volunteering with them too? Do you do? Yes?
Speaker 5:I don't get a chance to do it as much as, but yes, um, we both volunteer with camp hero so, um, again, man, like you know, I've touched base on it a few times, you know, during this and uh, I'm gonna touch base on it again. God works in some really funny ways. Um, and I'm gonna tell just a real quick thing and then dive directly into how this has helped me with camp. You know, when I was working for the jail, I used to sit and I would actually write poetry about different things. At the time I was married and we had had a child, a little girl, and she's actually my oldest daughter now out of the three daughters that I have, and one son.
Speaker 5:But me and my ex-wife were having trouble and we ended up, long story short, I caught her cheating on me. We had been on some rocky roads for a little while. She started seeing some other dude behind my back and I figured out about it. So I confronted her, she admitted to it and you know a couple of arguments and stuff ensued. You know things got really rough for a little while and through all this arguing and going back and forth and stuff like that, I got really depressed and I actually wrote a poem that said it seems your love has left its mark. And now I sit here alone in the dark thinking to myself should I end it all or shall I just continue to fall? Well, not anymore, because tonight I've decided I'll no longer fall. Tonight I've decided to end it all. So tonight I'll sit here alone in the dark and everyone will hear this pistol leave its mark. So I wrote that with the intent horrible time, amen, that's our lives. So, with the intent Horrible time, horrible time, amen, that's our lives, isn't it.
Speaker 5:So I wrote that poem with the full intent that that night when I got off work, I got off at 8 in the morning and I was going to go pick up my little girl she was just learning to talk and we were just going to have the greatest day that we could possibly have. And I went and got her, took her to the park, we had breakfast together, went and got ice cream, did all this stuff together, went shopping and, just you know, had a really good day. And I was sitting there on the couch and I was watching her play in the living room floor, knowing that that night my plan was to take her back to her mom and then I was going to eat my pistol. That was my plan, straight up. So I was sitting there watching her play and all of a sudden the eyes broke. And all of a sudden the eye just broke Like I threw my face in my hands, started bawling my eyes out because I knew it was going to be one of the last times I ever saw her. And all of a sudden her hands reached up and she pulled my hands off my face and she hugged me and she said I love you, daddy.
Speaker 5:And I knew then I can't do this, like I can't leave something this good to face this hell that we call life on her own.
Speaker 5:I can't do that. So at that time, man, like it's it's odd because I've talked to some of my friends from the jail that I'm still, you know, still talk to. Now. You know, man, you have no idea, because you know, for the longest time you talk about the stigma behind mental health, like for the the longest time, if you thought about killing yourself, man, you didn't need to be a cop, you were crazy and people don't understand that you have trouble regulating your emotions because you know well, you just scooped this person's body parts up out of you know this guy's house. But hey, we said that we were going to go surprise this kid at 3 30 for their birthday because they love the police. So we're going to run up there in our uniforms because they want to see a bunch of cops for their birthday, right so now I gotta go from well, I just got done washing blood off my hands from a kid in a car crash.
Speaker 5:To well, now I gotta go smile at a birthday party and then 30 minutes at after that. Well, I'm going to a domestic because these two people don't like the way that the chicken got cooked at Walmart that night and they're pissed off about it and it's petty bull crap, you've got to be bipolar.
Speaker 2:Every shift, every day, literally made to be bipolar.
Speaker 5:It's super hard to regulate your emotion and you need a support system to help you do that. And I didn't have one. I've told my friends you have no idea how many times I smiled at you and cut up with you and cracked jokes thinking about eating my pistol after I left work that day. And people just don't understand that. And it's not that I wanted to die, man, I just wanted the pain to go away. So the reason I say that is because throughout my career that helped me and I genuinely believe this that God let me go through that because he knew that one of these days I was going to be a police officer and move from corrections into that policing field and I was going to deal with people who didn't have a support system and I could connect with those people on a whole different level than another police officer that had never felt that before and I could genuinely heartfelt, wise, understand what was going through their head and why they felt the way that they felt and that to them that was the worst day of their entire life.
Speaker 5:It wasn't that they wanted to die, it's just that inside they were hurting so bad. They just wanted the pain to go away and they didn't know how else to make that happen Because there was nobody there to help them and it was a stigma that you know. If you wanted to kill yourself, like you were going to the mud house, man, that's just how it worked. So you know, within, probably, what I'd say, like the last you know. Six, seven years, mental health has started becoming a really big thing in law enforcement. Well, again, man, by sheer grace of God, I think that me and Amanda were called out of policing together her in 2020 and me in 2021 for a reason and we started off we did our own construction business.
Speaker 5:We're still doing that today. We run our construction business full time and we do pretty well. It provides for us and our family. And for those of you that don't know, I teach tactics and shooting and stuff on the weekends. I teach pretty much every weekend. It's something that I love doing.
Speaker 5:You know I own VOA Tactical it stands for Violence of Action and I teach civilians and military and police personnel, I train them to. You know, do CQT and shooting and stuff and do it well. Self-defense yeah self-defense, you know fighting all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 5:Put them through scenarios. I mean we do all kinds of stuff. You know not to brag or anything, but I have a fairly good background. I'm a trained sniper through Norse's Academy. I'm a breacher, I'm a less lethal chemical munitions instructor. I have knife work under my belt, I'm a combat coordinator. I mean I have all kinds of crap that basically means nothing but it sounds good on paper. Anyway. It's your brain engine of me. You know I've got all this stuff that I know how to teach and I love and I love passing it on to others. And you know I've sent guys out of my classes and they've become, you know, shooters that people don't even like going to these competitions and stuff with them, because if they show up and they see a couple of my guys, they're like we're going to these competitions and stuff with them because if they show up and they see a couple of my guys, they're like we're gonna lose. Yeah, so you know we've been pretty successful with that that's how you met Rocco and that's that's how I met Rocco.
Speaker 5:so one of my students uh, this big Italian goober that I've got, that's a student, he's an awesome guy. He just, again, god working, looks at me one day and he's like, hey, you know, I want you to meet this guy at the 511 Tactical Store that just opened up in Lexington. His name's Jonathan. He's like he's a former Marine and he really wants to talk to you and I think it would be good to get your company and 511 in collaboration with each other. So I'm like, yeah, dude, let's meet us. So I called Jonathan super cool over the phone, um, set up a time to meet with him. Well, I get there and like this guy is nothing like what I expected. Jonathan has like super long, wavy black hair. Uh, he looks like he's a military.
Speaker 5:He looks like he's of like Muslim descent uh, you know darker skin, but this guy is like the epitome of the chilled out dude. So I start talking with Jonathan and we're cutting up and telling stories and you know he's showing me some of the coins and stuff that he's got in his coin box and his cash box there at the store. And you know he's telling me hey, man, you know I'd love to work with you and all this other stuff. And he's like well, by the way, I got this guy named Rocco that I want you to meet up with. I'm like, oh, okay, cool. So you know, now I've went from I met Max out of the blue yeah, because he just showed up one day at class that he had heard of me. And you know, then he meets me up with Jonathan out of the blue. Well, now I'm going to meet this guy. And he's like, yeah, the dude owns Camp Hero. And I'm like, well, what's Camp Hero? And he's like, well, it's basically a thing for mental health. And as soon as he said it.
Speaker 5:I'm like whoa. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I've heard of that. Yeah, we don't do that.
Speaker 5:So I ain't crazy. And he's like look man, it's not your typical, you know, go in and hug and cry. And you know it's not your touchy, feely stuff. It's. We all get together as former military guys or, you know, current retired whatever military first responders and we just hang out.
Speaker 5:And I'm like, OK, I mean I could give give this a chance. So I set up a time to go meet with rocco. Well, I'm like, okay, you know this guy owns this non-profit you know business. That's supposed to be for mental health. Like you know, he's gonna show up in you know nice clothes and he's gonna be a clean cut guy. You know he's supposed to be a businessman, right? This dude shows up and he's in a Dodge Ram four-door that's wrapped in urban camo. You cannot miss this truck. It's wrapped in urban camo, says Camp Hero in huge letters on the side and it's sitting on 40s. This truck is monstrous. It looks like a tank rolling down the road and I'm like who the hell is this guy?
Speaker 5:so then, rocco jumps out and he's this bald, just like absolute monster of a dude. He's got like 20 inch arms and he's tatted all over, cut off shirt, ball shorts and tennis shoes and I'm like hats turned around backwards. I'm like had you dressed up for this? I was like this ain't, this ain't like. Yeah, dude, I was wearing polo and khaki pants, which that is dressed up you know, like in-service dressed up, I had my clean boots on, so you know, I guess you have flashbacks like somebody I'm pulling over.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so this dude jumps out and he's like I'm going to shot a crackhead up the road and I'm like that's a helpful way to open up first conversation. He's like man. The dude was on my property and he's talking to me and Jonathan and Jonathan just starts laughing. He's like Rocco you the dude he was talking about on the way in and I was like man. The guy on the four-wheeler was like a daggone crackhead. I mean, you know like you hate to stereotype, but you know what I'm talking about and Rocco was like yeah, he said when I got up here he was on our daggone property and I was like can?
Speaker 5:I help you.
Speaker 5:And he goes no, what I'm doing is none of your business. And Rocco's like the business you're on my property. So he said, the guy got smart with him and started digging into the rack, the console, the four-wheel. He was like dude, look, I don't know what you're reaching for, but you need to stop, because I got a gun in this truck and like I'm not gonna play with you, you need to stop reaching for whatever you're reaching for and get your ass off my property. So he's telling us this story and of course you know we're doing the whole you know policing thing laughing. Well, me and Rocco sit and we talking. I mean, dude, it's like talking with Rocco is like talking to a brother you didn't know you had. You know, as soon as he hopped out of the truck he starts talking about this and mid-sentence the dude just walks up and gives me a hug. I mean you feel like you're being hugged by a bear because he's just so big.
Speaker 5:And you're like man, like I don't even know this guy, and he's hugging me. This is kind of giving me some weird vibes.
Speaker 6:No, you just don't know how to take it. You're so standoffish, yeah, and I'm like man like, what is this?
Speaker 5:So we sit and we talk for, you know, know, probably the next hour and a half or so, and he cuts up and all this other stuff.
Speaker 5:Well then, you know, next thing, I know and I'm not gonna get too big into this because it's some stuff that's still coming down the pipe um, but you know, rocco offers me a job and it's something that's an absolute dream to me that it's going to let me do my tactical stuff 40 hours a week and teach people, which is what I love doing anyway. So you know, during this time frame of dealing with Rocco, I've learned a lot about camp and the biggest thing that we do at camp, and kind of the slogan, is it's heroes helping heroes, heal, and what we do is we do that through the outdoors. So we get together as a group and we just kind of like, we hang out and it's like-minded people that are just together and we will go fishing or we'll go out and do hunts. Uh, he sends people all over the world for these um hunts, to go hunt for gators, um, wild boar, awesome, white tail elk, uh we sent turkey hunts like we do all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 5:man Fly fishing? Yeah, and we do all this stuff and this foundation Camp Hero. They pay for these veterans and these first responders to go do this stuff and it's 100% free to them. That's awesome.
Speaker 5:So they pay for their travel, they pay for their tickets, they pay for their lodging, they pay for their food. They even paid to have the deer and stuff that were killed, the elk that were killed by the three guys we sent last year, processed and brought back. So I mean like it's just a really amazing thing. And then we partner with all these other entities like nature. Reliance that's taught by craig coddle, and craig is a world-renowned survival instructor. He's taught seer before to special forces guys. I mean all kinds of stuff. And Craig is like he's the dude you want to know. If the world goes to crap, he can walk around your yard and make you a salad. That's awesome yeah.
Speaker 6:He's got our kids making salads from the yard. All these leaves that are edible.
Speaker 5:Yeah, he knows, I'd like to meet him.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, how do you make ranch dressing out there? No, no, funnily enough, though.
Speaker 5:He's like I mean, you're not going to find ranch dressing, but if you want to go over to what's it called rosebud tree. He's like if you take the little pink berries and stuff off of a redbud. He's like if you take redbuds off of the redbud tree and sprinkle them in the salad, it actually sweetens your salad up and you don't really need ranch dressing.
Speaker 6:It actually does.
Speaker 5:Okay, so we did it and the kids will eat it Like they love it, wow.
Speaker 5:But he knows all these things and knows how to track animals, track people, and we team up with him and he teaches these survival courses to these guys 100 free and you know we partner with him.
Speaker 5:Um, we also help out with at-risk youth. So you know, like some of the things that we've done is we've teamed up with some of the places in lexington, uh, that have these kids that you know are less fortunate or grown up in Section 8 and things like that, and basically, like we'll bring them out and you know they've either been in trouble or they've got a bad family at home or this, that and the other, and we'll take them fishing, we'll teach them how to fish because they've never done it before, they've never had the opportunity. So we'll take them fishing and just have a good time with them, spend one-on-one time with them, listening to their story, telling them parts of our story that you can tell to a 10 or 11-year-old Right, and just try to connect with them and show them that there is places out there that, even though you've had a hard life, you can go to and they can help with your life and make things better.
Speaker 6:Well, it's healing wounded veterans, first responders and growing future heroes.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 6:So the point is letting even those kids who are, you know, less likely to become a first responder because of bad experiences, you give them good experience as a first responder in the military and show them the possibilities and give them a chance to turn it around. So I mean it's a win-win and give them a chance to turn it around.
Speaker 4:So I mean it's a win-win. It's like a camp that they can come and stay at for, say, like a week Actually yes, so right now we are still actively growing the camp.
Speaker 5:So what Rocco does is say we're going to have, you know, 10, 15 people down there. We have a small set of beds inside the actual cabin right now, but it's only roughly sleeps six to eight people. So what he'll do if we're going to have a lot of people like some people will sleep on bags in the floor, Some people, like he actually goes and uses funds from the camp that he's done through fundraisers and stuff like that He'll go rent campers from the depot and bring them down there and set them up for people to sleep in.
Speaker 5:Wow so we always accommodate everybody the best way that we possibly can. We either put them in campers tents. Oh man, Real good figure so. Rocco's a former Navy vet and a former police officer. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 4:Funnily enough, I went to a class down in Corbin that he came and kind of was speaking on it, yeah, and I was like, wow, and then you kind of things happen. Now I'm like I got to get involved, I'm fired up about it and I got more time now. So I'm like, hey, maybe this is something I need to really look at.
Speaker 6:Yeah, and for any of the listeners too, they're all volunteer 501c3 nonprofit. You can look up more information at campherokyorg. There is a Camp Hero Arizona now also. That's pretty new.
Speaker 5:Yeah, we actually just opened that up about a month ago.
Speaker 6:Yeah so. Camp Hero is growing pretty quickly, but there's actually a benefit for the break coming up saturday, august 9th this year uh, the campbell house in lexington, south broadway. Um, that's uh from 7 to 11 pm and then, I think, tickets for that. Are there still tickets available for?
Speaker 5:there's still tickets available. Uh, they're around a hundred dollars a person. But I will say this you're not going to find a better thing to do that night. It's just a bunch of really good people. They get together, they cut up, they have fun. There's a silent auction where you can bid on stuff and I think guys like it's not just okay.
Speaker 1:Well, these are a bunch of military and law enforcement people so it's a bunch of tactical crap.
Speaker 5:But there's tactical stuff. There's guitars signed by famous people, there's paintings, there's vacations, there's giveaways, there's guns I mean knives, cups, anything you can think of. They auction off at this place and give stuff away. That's awesome, and they offer some of the best food that you'll ever eat. And it all comes with your ticket price. And then also, I'm not a drinker. Some of these guys are, but it's an open bar. So I mean, like you know, you're not going to find a better group of people to chill out and hang out with and just have a good time, and you're helping out a lot of people that could really use it.
Speaker 6:And the live auction is a lot of fun.
Speaker 5:I have it posted on my.
Speaker 6:Facebook page, I think Eddie Vedder, axl Rose, I can't even remember all of them. There were several that signed Ozzy. Osbourne signed the guitar.
Speaker 5:They're going to be auctioning it off up there.
Speaker 6:And that was all before Ozzy passed away, so I was like man.
Speaker 5:So we've got that guitar, we've got custom paintings, I mean just all kinds of stuff that's going to be at this auction and this giveaway and, like I said, everything that we get from it helps to fund the next year's worth of events that we host and partner with all these people to help these guys and these girls that have been through, you know, all these crises and stuff, and let them know that number one you're not alone, you're not by yourself. A lot of people have been through what you've been through and they understand how you feel and we give them an open opportunity to just sit and talk. One of the first true, honest times that I had ever really broken down and told somebody my story of nearly committing suicide and the poem that I wrote and how I felt was at camp and with other guys and it wasn't, you know. Just one of those things like, oh well, let's all sit down and talk about our feelings.
Speaker 5:We were all just sitting around bs and then the topic or whatever and we were having a good day and then all of a sudden topic come up and it was like, hey, a good day. And then all of a sudden the topic come up and it was like, hey, why do I feel comfortable actually talking with these people about this?
Speaker 2:But I did. That's what kind of this podcast has done for us and some of the guys. It's gave us opportunity to get things off our chest and kind of talk. And it's weird, like you said in the beginning it's weird to push that record button at first and you're kind of nervous, but then it's like the more you do it and the more you get into it. It's like comfortable, it's like just talking to, it's like I mean it's.
Speaker 4:We're broadcasting this to anybody that wants to listen. However the therapy it's, it's like. You know, I'm a Christian. I love Jesus, but being open about your faith or being open about the struggles that you go to, it's funny how you can do that to everybody now, and I had to go through that. I wouldn't have shared a lot of this info. I didn't want my wife to know some of this stuff, or my kids or my mom and dad.
Speaker 6:You feel like you're burdening people whenever you talk about it.
Speaker 4:But when you get that off your chest to them, it opens up to where you're okay to share it with us and the listeners that we have, and that's growth and that's that shows that, hey, it's okay to be Right, we're injured. It's okay to be not okay. Things have happened to us.
Speaker 6:Like he said, God works in mysterious ways. This right here is the cabin at Camp Hero. It's a little sketch of it. My great-grandfather actually was born in that cabin.
Speaker 6:I didn't know it until my mom and mom was like oh, I know of Camp Hero, your grandfather was born Full circle, know it until my mom. And mom was like oh, I know of camp hero, your grandfather was born so, but you know, me and him have been able to talk to each other. Um, I know I had told you all before we ever even started this. Um, people think that suicide or suicidal ideation is planned or is wanted, but you don't ever hear of impulsive suicide, like most people think that. Well, that's not a thing. You knew what you were doing. You know why would you do that, why would you attempt suicide? You know, leave your family behind. But what people don't realize is that people can either attempt suicide or have suicidal ideation and not even feel like they're suicidal. And a quick story of something that happened to me that I was. I was lucky enough to come home and tell him about it because I was too afraid to tell my department. That's why this is very irrelevant to Camp Hero. You know, if you're having, if you're going through things and you don't want to tell certain people because you're afraid they'll put you on, leave and take your weapon. But something that happened to me is I was put on Depakote for migraines. It's an anti-seizure medication. And the doctor told me and told him you may start to have suicidal ideation. And I pushed it right in the back of my mind and whatever, that's not going to happen to me. And I remember going on a call, very specifically, it kind of started building up. I started thinking, man, I've got this gun on my side, it's real easy to just pull it out. And just how easy is it to pull the trigger? Well, that's a stupid thought. Why would anybody ever do that? I'm not suicidal and I didn't want to kill myself. We had our third baby at home and she, you know, I mean I honestly, genuinely, was in a good spot in my life, didn't have anything going on negative, had nothing that would cause me to not want to be here. And little thoughts like that would pop up. And I think every officer thinks that at some point, on how close you are to a trigger of your weapon, at all points Like what happens if you accidentally pull the trigger or whatever, all these silly things go through your head. But I started thinking things like that and I pushed it off and pushed it off, and pushed it off this is over, like a three-day span and thinking things like that, and I pushed it off and pushed it off, and pushed it off. This is like a three-day span and I will never forget I got.
Speaker 6:I went to a call. It was a motorist assist off of exit 77 going northbound and I pulled up behind what turned out to be a state trooper. He was a retired state trooper. He was in a red Mustang Again, all the details I'll never forget. It Got out, he had a flat tire.
Speaker 6:He's like hey, can you just take me back to my house and I'll get my tools and bring it back and I'll fix it before the tow truck will get here. That's a win-win for any officer. If I can get this done within 15 minutes and go home, sweet. Well, I'll take him home, bring him back. He's working on putting his tire on. I've got my cruiser park behind him so that it's protecting him and I'm watching for traffic.
Speaker 6:And next thing, I know I'm taking my little class A shoe and I'm playing with the.
Speaker 6:The white lines are actually thicker in real life than what they look like if you're driving.
Speaker 6:Most people have not been on the interstate, they don't know that. But I'm sitting there playing with the white line on the road and I'm playing with the ridges, just honestly, just somewhere else in my mind and I think I'm going to step in front of this, some of it's coming down the road and it was a legitimate thought and I'm like, well, that'd be stupid, but what if I do? Let's do it. So I start to step over that white line and whoever does not believe in divine intervention, like if it's not your day something came over me and was like stop. Like yelled it, not just, oh hey, you might not want to do that.
Speaker 6:My blood ran cold and I realized what I'd done and I instantly turned around. I remember looking over at the guy who was working on his car and I thought he's fixing to see me just like get killed. Didn't even think first off about the family at home because I was like, well, I would have never done that in the first place. Turned around to get my cruiser and I called him and I was like look, I literally almost stepped out in traffic. He's like what happened? Do you remember the phone call?
Speaker 5:Yeah, and I was like I mean, you know, why were you thinking that? And she was like I just don't know. And I was like I mean are you good? I mean, is there something? That's happened. That's an underlying issue.
Speaker 5:Have you been on a call lately that you're having trouble dealing with, just asking the normal questions? She's like it's nothing like that. I really can't explain to you why I did that and I'm like maybe it's the medicine. And again, it was one of those things that again, through God's grace, I got lucky enough that I had went to a course where they focused on suicide and mental health and crisis, and it was actually called CIT Training stands for the Crisis Intervention Team, all class.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've had it. Yeah, it's great.
Speaker 5:It was awesome because you know, we at Richmond nobody had went to that class yet and they were like you know, we're going to send you all to this and I was like great, you know, I get to spend a week talking about crazy people. That's awesome, you know you know how the mentality is. Yeah.
Speaker 5:And I was like you know? No, you know, I'm only a SWAT operator. I don't get to go to you know shooting school or you know anything cool. I got to go to you know the crazy. You know the crazy, v course. So I get there and they start talking.
Speaker 5:The first thing they did in that class was this lady stands up and she's like she starts talking about this woman and she's like you know, this woman has a good life, she has awesome family at home, she loves her job. But every night she came home and I don't know if you are familiar with, like the Smith Wesson duty pistols, how the safety in them works, that if you eject the magazine it makes it to where you can't pull the trigger. It kills the connection, for you know the break in the trigger. She would actually pull the magazine out of her pistol and leave the round in the chamber and stick it in her mouth and squeeze the trigger and pray that it malfunctioned. And she was doing that daily and she couldn't understand why.
Speaker 5:And it sucks in the policing world because we get so cold to other people's emotions and you deal with these people that they're like okay, well, today's Tuesday, so I'm going to call the police and tell them I'm about to cut my wrist again. They've already dealt with me 72 times this, but you know, let's see what 73 brings and you get so cut and you're like man, just why do I have to deal with this person every other day? And it's the same crap. Well then you talk to your partners and stuff about that and you don't know what they're going through at home and you say stupid stuff that you never would really think about. Like I just wish that damn idiot would actually do it. Yeah, yeah, I'm tired of dealing with them. They're stupid hollering if they want to kill theirself all the time. I just wish they'd do it. Which?
Speaker 6:is nothing more than anger manifest in itself like a control situation.
Speaker 5:Well then, you're like you never think about the fact that your partner may be going through stuff at home or may have a chemical imbalance or something, and they're like, okay, well, you know I was going to talk to that person about. You know, they're supposed to be my partner, that's my brother, it's the person I spend every shift with. But I mean, they just told me that they want that person to kill herself and they're an idiot for feeling the way they do. So how are they going to judge me? I can't tell them about how I feel now. And they started talking about stuff like that and I was like man, like that's just, that's crap. Like how many times as an officer have I said that? Because you know I've dealt with the person for the hundredth time this year and you just get tired of dealing with them because they act stupid every time you do. And you're like man, how can, how can I share how I feel if my partner feels that way about that person and you get stuck in this terrible loop. You know that you have no support system.
Speaker 5:Well, you know what they started talking about this woman and how she was doing that every night, and then they introduced her and I I was like well, that lady, I mean like you know, how does this relate to me, you know? Okay, well, this is a class where I'm supposed to learn to deal with suicidal people and people that are in crisis. And then she's like well, I'd like to introduce you to this lady. This is Lieutenant Pam Oberhausen with the Louisville Metro Police Department, and I was like what?
Speaker 5:This lady's a lieutenant and she used to do that every night and it turns out to let everybody that's listening to this know she didn't have a bad life, but she just had a legitimate chemical imbalance in her brain and her body was having trouble producing that particular chemical that would make her have normal thoughts and a normal life, and it was something that was completely out of her control.
Speaker 5:And she said you know, I never felt comfortable talking to my people about it because that's how they acted towards all these suicidal people, and you don't feel comfortable because you feel like you don't have a support system. So I was stuck, stuck and she said you know, the more I learned about it, I was like something's got to change. And she said that sometimes it's not just that you're going through a crisis or you're having a bad time or you're going through something in life, you just legitimately have something wrong with you that your body doesn't produce that happy chemical that you're supposed to have. Sometimes, man, it makes you wonder like, does our body actually as police officers or as first responders? Does it lose the ability to even produce that chemical when it's responsible to? Because we numb ourselves to things so much, because we go from highs, lows, happy, sad, upbeat, downbeat, rapid response and all up, you know, combat mindset to okay, well, I'm supposed to go home and love my wife and kids and you go through all of that within an eight-hour period, you know most people
Speaker 5:you know most people they go through. I think they said the average and don't quote me on this, but I know the numbers are close through. I think they said the average and don't quote me on this, but I know the numbers are close. Most people go through three to four traumatic events in their entire lifetime. Police officers and first responders go through eight to nine hundred in their entire of times. What normal people go through? And your, your body has a hard time regulating, not only physically but mentally, how to respond to certain things, because half the time it doesn't know whether it's supposed to be happy right now or sad, or all over the air and anxiety, or fake and trying to put on a face or what it's supposed to be happy, right now or sad or all over the air in anxiety or fake and trying to put on a face or what you're supposed to do, because you have to put on a front to be whatever you need to be for that other person every time you go to a new call.
Speaker 6:And that brings me to a point 8 to 900 in a career, but what? 200 for an officer who's an officer for five years roughly? I mean, if you were to break it down roughly.
Speaker 6:So something I want to bring up Camp Hero is for current, former and retired police and sorry first responders and military. So even if you're a former first responder, I've had my fair share of chats with people who I know have been through traumatic events. I was talking to one from. He was a former. He went through a very traumatic event that unfortunately ended his career by the department. He was not in the wrong. I will say that, like it is well known that that the situation they just didn't back him.
Speaker 6:They did not back him. I will not go any further into detail. I don't want to give away who it is or what agency or anything like that. But or what agency or anything like that. But I reached out to him and he said that's not for somebody like me, that's for current, that's for military, for current officers. And I'm like, no, it's for former. You are dealing obviously with that event because it gets brought up every year, because it was. I mean, it's an anniversary, you know. So like that's something that you're dealing with. But in so many people's heads they're thinking, well, that's not for me, Well, why isn't it? You know, like we all go through stuff. Even if you were an officer for four or five years, you still have well surpassed I'm sure you could sit and tell me on at least one hand, traumatic events you've been through. Why does that disqualify you from coming and shooting at the range and hanging out?
Speaker 6:Yeah why does that disqualify you from coming and shooting at the range and hanging out? Yeah, you know. And if you feel like it's not you don't know if it's for you or not and you just want to help volunteer, I mean, you know there's on campherokyorg. You can go on and fill out a. There's a registration form on there and it's for military. There's a form for military, there's a form for first responders, there's a form for volunteers, a form if you want to donate, like if you're a bigger entity, I think you want to donate.
Speaker 6:Don't quote me on that. There's a tab at the bottom. You can donate with PayPal. You can buy t-shirts on there, like if you, if you're just a hat guy, they got hats and cups and there's so many different ways to get involved. But if you don't know, there's a thing on there that says ask Rocco. Just hit the ask Rocco and send him an email. Be like look, I'm not for sure if I qualify. I was in the academy for I don't know for eight weeks and then something happened and then I don't know, just ask Rocco. That's kind of like the I guess, the biggest point that I want to make there, because so many of us think that, well, that's not for me, but yeah, and again with what she's saying, man.
Speaker 5:So Rocco is really different in the aspect that and it's something that I really respect him for. When you talk to Rocco, I don't care if it's the first time or the thousandth time. He is always the same genuine person that you feel like you've known your whole life. And he's not so many injuries that he has a pain pump that's permanently installed in his back that keeps his pain at certain levels. And sometimes, because of his spinal injuries and things that happened to him when he was a cop and his injury, he'll completely lose all function in his legs Like they'll just go numb, and he's paralyzed, 100% paralyzed, wow, and he has to slowly, through physical therapy, gain strength back in his legs. Well, that happened to him last year and all of a sudden he calls me and I'm like hey, dude, what's up you doing? Okay? He's like no, I'm in hospital. And I'm like, okay, are you good? He goes, he goes, no, I can't use my legs. And I'm like rocco, that's not like, that's not the way, you have a normal conversation.
Speaker 5:He's like well, dude, it happens so often, like I mean, I know that me and you ain't talked about it, but you know this has happened to me before and it's just yeah, this is my life.
Speaker 4:And he told that story to us yeah it's his story. I would never take it, but I'm.
Speaker 5:I was like wow, yeah, um, yeah, yeah so I mean you know the fact that he was dealing with that lady and she ran him over and broke his spine yeah, he's pretty open about it he tells about all that stuff and how camp hero came to be.
Speaker 5:Because you know, when he lost, when he got medically retired out of the Navy for the injury that he had that almost killed him, he lost like nine feet of his small intestine because he had a spike go into his abdomen and the only reason it didn't rip all the way up his body was because his armor stopped it and he fell back onto their vehicle and they evac'd him and they ended up sending him into surgery and he lost part of his intestine. Still has a huge scar on his abdomen. Well then, when they medically retired him, you know he was like well, I still want to serve people.
Speaker 5:So he goes into the police department and works for Shepherdsville Police for, I think, like nine years or something like that I can't remember the exact number my numbers get to me like this sometimes but I think it was nine years and was on a traffic stop and this lady took off and ran over him and broke his spine, wow. Well then you know he goes through all of that, and I mean the dude's like I said, didn't he hurt?
Speaker 4:He didn't know he was hurt that bad at first. No, he jumped up and started chasing her down the road.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, he starts chasing her down the road and then he's like I think something's wrong and he radios her. He's like, hey, I'm going to signal late this and I'm going to go to the hospital. And goes to the hospital and he's got a broken spine, wow. And so he goes through all this. Well then they medically retire him again. Well then he feels like you know, hey, I've lost my purpose, like I like serving people and now I can't do that anymore. And because of that he started feeling depressed and he was like you know, I don't have my purpose anymore and I can't find a new one. And I think I'm just going to say to hell with it and I'm just going to off myself.
Speaker 5:And Rocco will tell you. You know what he's, he's 100 percent open about it. And you know I can. He now he can tell these stories like I'm talking to you right now. Every time I would tell it I'd start tearing up, I'd get choked up, couldn't talk. You know I'd cry. And you know I told you all my story earlier and you hear how much more confident I am in it, that I can actually talk to people and help them through things, and that's through camp.
Speaker 5:But Rocco started noticing that he was having these ideations and apparently it got so bad that he was actually Googling ways to kill himself and make it look like an accident so that his family would get his insurance money. And he realized, like you know, something's wrong. I need to find help. Well, he started trying to find help and couldn't find anything. And he was like you know, I've helped all these people in my life, I've done all these things to serve, and now nothing's here to serve me when I need help. And he was like you know, something's got to change.
Speaker 5:So he bought the property in McKee. It's 165 acres, I think Don't quote me on that exact number, but somewhere around 150, 160-inch. He bought it sight unseen and again, god working the way he does, this lady had this place for sale and her son was a former military vet. And he told this lady what his intention for the camp was and she was asking $250,000 for this property. And he's like well, I'm buying it and I'm not even going to lay eyes on it, but I'm going to send you an offer, please don't get upset with me. So he sends in I want to give $200 for the property. It's a $50,000 cut, like most people would be like no, you can kick rocks somewhere, we ain't doing that. He tells this lady what happens.
Speaker 5:She's like my son's a military vet, so I'm going to call you back with a counter offer, but I'm not going to beat you up too bad. She calls Rocco back and offers him that she'll take the deal for $201,000. So Rocco buys the property sight unseen, figures out that it's got this cabin on it that already has some housing requirements with it. It has two campsites that already have septic and everything hooked up there. It has multiple caves on the property to go explore, one of which is a bat sanctuary.
Speaker 5:It's got natural springs on it and it's got this place down at the creek.
Speaker 6:That man I mean when you go there, it's almost like you're, it's almost like God put it there for therapy.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it's like you're not even on earth anymore because it's so peaceful down there. Everything else just fades away for a while and you can truly be at peace. And you know it's. You know the tattoo I've got on my arm, the whole warrior in the garden concept. You know it's that sense of being able to just go somewhere and finally find peace and truly be able to let go of all those things that have built up over the years and the things that you have rolling around in the back of your head that you think nobody gives a crap about. And then you meet a bunch of other dudes that you realize they've been there, they know what you're going through and they actually give a crap. And that's what rocco's whole mission is is you know other heroes helping other heroes heal, and you know I was.
Speaker 5:I had that mentality when I started there of like you know, I don't, I don't need that, I got my stuff under control, I'm good.
Speaker 5:And then I was like, well, I mean, it's a cool idea, like maybe I can volunteer. But it's funny how you know people like us we want to serve, and then you find out that through serving these other people you've in turn helped yourself and I can't tell you all, within the past year of volunteering at camp, how much my mentality has changed, how much I've actually stopped spending time trying to find ways to get away from the thoughts by you know playing some shooter video game or you know doing this, that and the other with this person, or trying to over occupy myself with tasks and work and things like that to I can actually stop the thoughts and realize my girls are here, I want to spend time with them. I want them to know that they didn't just have a officer or a cop or a construction worker as a dad. They have a father, a dad, someone that cares about them, that's there for them, that actually wants to serve them and teach them how to attack the world when it comes at them because it's going to.
Speaker 6:Because you have to prepare yourself. You have to be prepared to teach your kids and other people around you like be a good role model. If you're not in a good state of mind yourself, you're not going to be a very good role model period. Like I was saying before, with the medicine that I was on, that put me in a bad spot. But I think that God allowed that to happen to me so that I could understand suicidal.
Speaker 6:I worked with juveniles. The very first case I took I was destined to work with kids. The very first case I took I was destined to work with kids. The very first case I took it was an awful, awful case. It was 312 counts of sex crimes I'll just say that on a juvenile and that kind of dumped me into juvenile crime with kids and that hits home. A whole lot different whenever you work with kids than it does if you're just. You know and I'm not saying anything against it they all have their own factors. They all have their own stress levels that you deal with. But I think that I went through that suicidal ideation timeframe to help me to understand how impulsive that can be for people. Of course, like I said, I mean I didn't. I came off the medicine and I've not had that issue since that medicine. Apparently I was just. I had a really bad reaction to it.
Speaker 5:It caused a chemical imbalance.
Speaker 6:It caused a severe chemical imbalance. I mean, like I said, to the point where I didn't even know I was about to walk in traffic until I was, and then I realized what I was doing and then it was almost too late. But but things happen for a reason, because I can tell that story, and you'd be surprised how many other people were like wait, maybe that's what's wrong with me. And then they go to the doctor, they get their blood drawn.
Speaker 5:They figure out that their medicine there's like good medicine, bad medicine and iffy medicine. Do not touch that yeah.
Speaker 4:So you can have a DNA test right now. Good medicine doesn't always outweigh the bad part of what it is.
Speaker 6:That's very true and you know, and thankfully, like that gave me the insight to be able to work with these kids who are suicidal. Like okay, why are you suicidal? Is it just because you're being impulsive and you're being emotionally out of control right now? Is it because you're trying to get attention? Or is it because you have a chemical imbalance? Or because life is actually that bad and you actually want to end it? Like it helped to be able to navigate. And how many times did I go in at work at 8 o'clock in the morning Well before 8, working in the schools, and I didn't get home until 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning because I was in the hospital with suicidal kids.
Speaker 6:Yeah, many, many times. But that helped me. So I think God puts us in places and we go through stuff to.
Speaker 2:we go through stuff to be able to prepare us to help our fellow brothers and sisters out.
Speaker 6:So but camp, I mean I didn't. I couldn't tell my fellow officers. There's no way. If I had of, then what would that have done to my career? If I had said oh hey, by the way, I just about walked right out and in my uniform, I would have been done for I. They would have taken me off the streets and I didn't been in a desk job and they would have tried to paint me as that would have been a career ender, but it was just a pill that I had to stop taking every day.
Speaker 6:That was it. But with camp we have had so many people shut down our job sites on accident without even knowing it, and I would not have it any other way.
Speaker 5:No, they would call and we'll talk to them because they are having negative thoughts yeah, they'll call me in the middle of work and I'll look at her and be like at we're, we're done for a minute like at no more boards, no more drywall, no more screws, like this dude needs help or this girl needs help and we're gonna talk to him absolutely, you know it may be something small, like you know, one dude called us because he had found himself in some trouble at work because one of his fellow coworkers he was the manager and one of the fellow coworkers tried to blackmail him into a bunch of bull crap and he called them on their crap.
Speaker 5:And then the admin hadn't done the full investigation yet. They thought that he was at fault and he was like you know what do I do? And I was like you know what do I do? And I was like look, dude, these are the steps you need to go through. These are some resources that you can get it's not over.
Speaker 5:It's not over with yet don't give up, we're gonna fight this and I'm gonna send you a bunch of krs on the sidelines here that'll help you to fight this problem. So I sent him like 30 krs's that had to do with you know what they could charge this kid with for blackmail, for extortion, all this other crap. Assault was dealt into it, all this stuff and he was like dude. Thank you so much for just giving me the ammo to go at these people. And I was like, yeah, man, like that's what it's about is just helping each other out.
Speaker 5:And it's crazy because you get so caught up in your own head sometimes that the things I've seen, the things I've seen, the things I've dealt with, the things I've felt is so hard. And then you get a phone call from a dude that's 6'5", that weighs 340, and he's a brick of a man and he's covered in tattoos. He's a legitimate badass and he's like man, I'm having a hard time and the dude just breaks. Yeah, it's because he can actually feel comfortable with being vulnerable and not being the badass around you and actually tell you how he's feeling, knowing that you understand and you're not going to judge him, you know, and that's. That's a different level of trust and brotherhood that you can't find in most places, but it's something that I have found at camp and many others have to.
Speaker 4:That's good to know, I'll say this because and we've talked about this on our podcast before the veterans seem like you know I was in the Marines for four years but they had exit stuff, tap classes that you go and do all these little things to see what you're good at. If you're getting out, they have. You got veteran service stuff. I'm not always saying they're the greatest and everything, but there's a service that you can use. You know the VA and things, housing loans and things like that that they provide these four-year guys like me. That's opportunities for when you transition out 20-year cops, five-year cops. There is no transition, nothing. You go into it. You've lived this life, you've done these things. You've seen these things?
Speaker 4:you've served, you've you've deployed, I've deployed with the national guard during, you know, guard at the beginning of after 9-11. All this buildup, all this training, you go, you come back, you do your debriefs, you do your final medical, you go back, then you have drill or whatever. This is when I was in the Guard, but it was a long deployment. You were gone, come back, you process out, do your after action, stuff like that, clean your vehicle, all that stuff Comes a point. Doug and I both know you spend this much time, you retire and then you're like now.
Speaker 5:I'm supposed to be a civilian again, retire. And then you're like, hmm, now I'm supposed to be a civilian again.
Speaker 3:Yeah, how do you? There's certain things you cannot turn off.
Speaker 4:It's a horrible transition, mm-hmm, you know, and they Four-year, because you've seen stuff as four and five years. You see stuff at 10-year and then you've seen things at 20, 25. I don't know how many years you did. It's 100. 27 years and you're just not prepared mentally to call it quits all the time.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean there's a time and I'm nearing that time I'm still, you know, I'm back doing SRO work, but I don't feel like it's. It's a transition now and it's I'm getting closer to that Like, okay, I'm ready. You know, I'm still going to work, I'm still going to do things like that.
Speaker 6:But you can't go work a nine-to-five though not a regular one, not with the loop and it messes with you because military first responders you're so used to up and down, up and down, up and down and nothing ever stays the same, that if you go to a nine-to-five you'd pull your hair out and probably be in the mental hospital for real within within three weeks but sounds like, sounds like camp is a way to transition to and have, like you know, like-minded yeah folks.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that you can talk to and get when you're you know, have that support and somebody to call and talk to.
Speaker 6:We've had people from correct me if I'm wrong. Was it Chicago PD a little while back that was down there? Yeah, there's badges inside the cabin from everyone who's been? And they're literally from all over the country, Like you think, oh well, it's all over Kentucky. It's not Like we've met some really, really cool people.
Speaker 4:How does the outreach as far as that goes? How does that process work? As far as getting that word out, is it just like doing a podcast, or how do you all do that?
Speaker 5:So we have all kinds of things, man, I will say that rocco does a phenomenal job. The man is on top of him being, you know, kind of like the big brother to everybody. Rocco is an absolute workhorse when it comes to this particular mission that he has. Not only the fact that rocco, you know, has probably 50 other missions that he's constantly chasing, but he still finds time to go. Right now we're raffling off a Harley Davidson motorcycle that we got from Harley. He's using that and doing podcasts with them for Camp Hero to do outreach. He was just on Fox 56 News. We deal with church groups, less fortunate kids and things like that that we do outreach with.
Speaker 6:Word of mouth through first responders goes a long way.
Speaker 5:Word of mouth through other first responders Big time the word of mouth. Yes, yes, it is for other first responders to hear these messages and to listen to these podcasts and talk to other people that have been to camp about their experience, because we've had guys come out there. That's just like I'm not even going to talk to anyone there. I don't want anything to do with this place. I'm going because my wife has told me she's going to divorce me if I don't go. And then the next thing, you know like this dude is cutting up and cracking jokes and telling stories and he's like man.
Speaker 5:Why does this place feel so much like home? And yeah, it's weird because even last night and I could show it to you on my phone I messaged Rocco last night. Now I've been with camp for over a year. Messaged Rocco last night now I've been with camp for over a year. I messaged Rocco last night because I was talking to my daughter, adeline, and we were talking about camp and she's eight and she looks at me and she goes are we going to go to camp? So I was like, yeah, we can go to camp. She's like I love camp, hero. She's like it's just, I feel safe there and it she kind of paused and she goes. It just really feels like home. So I sent Rocco the conversation that me and her had had and I was like thanks for that.
Speaker 5:Even my kids feel like camp is home to them and Rocco does an amazing job at reaching out to not just the guys that need help but he's open to them, bringing their families, their kids, their wives, their friends. You know, bring your people with you to help you heal and to help them learn to heal with you, because a lot of people don't understand that it's not just your fight. You know I'm fighting these demons at home and you know, luckily, my wife you know Amanda here. She understands because she was a first responder too. But if your wife has worked in a clothing shop or has worked as a vet her whole life or you know some other profession, it's hard to make them understand.
Speaker 5:They have no clue, yeah.
Speaker 6:And it's not fair to expect them to. No. Like they chose you, knowing you're a first responder, they didn't choose to be a first responder.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I wasn't. Well, I was a moron. Right. But I was out of that and then went into it. I chose it. Married to her and then she went through that 20 years with me, Right. She retired with me. She served two. I can guarantee it.
Speaker 6:You know, had her late nights of staying up and worrying.
Speaker 4:Oh, I couldn't even imagine what I put her through through accidental calls when I was fist fighting somebody on the side of the road that got. I was getting ready to call. I mean, and she's calling, like what is going on?
Speaker 6:We were lucky with that aspect because we both like I knew what it was like and he knew what it was like to be like. We didn't worry as much, but he did get called to court one day because they called him to court when he was with another department. They seen a subpoena for Officer Madden.
Speaker 5:So I went to court because we were both Officer Madden and then they was like so when did he pull the gun on you? And I was like what Wait? What they was like? Well, tell us when this guy pulled the gun and I was like ain't, nobody pulled a gun on me. I shot him.
Speaker 3:I didn't know any of the details and I was sitting there like they go, never mind, yeah.
Speaker 6:And they're like they pulled it back. They're like do you have that?
Speaker 5:report and I'm like reading it, just infuriated.
Speaker 6:And they're like no, never mind.
Speaker 5:She didn't tell me about this one and I'm like this is a little good on my wife and I'm pissed You're about to go after it.
Speaker 6:And, and of course you know the county attorney, she's like just let me have that back real quick.
Speaker 1:He's like no, you gotta call me, you don't give it to me, so then I call her, I step in.
Speaker 5:I'm on the point of who didn't you tell me somebody tried to pull a gun.
Speaker 6:I said Steven, I pulled my gun on him. He almost got to the gun. He attempted to pull the gun. The citation says he's like yeah, it does say that, but but you didn't tell me he said but, you didn't shoot. I said he didn't pull the gun. So here we are, over there yeah, that's what you said you didn't tell me but man, you know what.
Speaker 5:So we tell that story and just now everybody around the table here, you know all five of us were laughing and cutting up about it. That's our humor and most people that live a civilian life. So we talked about this story on the way here. They most people don't understand this, but I already know the outcome. I'm gonna get out of you all. I went to a call one morning it's like 5 30 in the morning and this dude has overdosed for the hundredth time we go in and he slumped up against the wall in a chair barely breathing. Me and Officer Martinez walk in and you have to know, martinez, he's this little Mexican guy that's like 5'4" and.
Speaker 5:Martinez is one of those dudes that he always has this serious face. But if you'll actually pay attention and listen to him, he cracks one-liners constantly and flies them under the radar.
Speaker 5:So if you'll actually listen to him, he'll keep you giggling all day long, but you never know it because a lot of people just ignore him because he looks so serious all the time. So I look at Martinez and I'm like dude, are we really dealing with this at 530 in the morning? And he's like man, let's just get this over with. We look and here comes red lights rolling up right outside the door. The ambulance is there. So I look at Martinez and I'm like all right, dude, let's just go ahead and get him in the floor so EMS can start work. As soon as they walk through the door, he's like all right, cool. I'm like, well, you want hands or you want feet? He's like dude, I'll take feet. I'm like all right, cool. So I grab this dude by his arms and I'm like all right, ready. One, two, three and we jerk him out of this chair and this dude's leg pops off in Martinez's hand.
Speaker 5:So it scares the hell out of him because here he's got this dude's body weight still in one hand and he's holding a random leg in the other and he's like holy shit. So he's like what is? Happening, so he drops the dude's leg because it scared him while the other leg catches Martinez's bill, pops it open, his mag pouch goes flying across the room. That's hilarious. I'm dying laughing at this point to the point that I can't even hold myself up, so I drop the dude.
Speaker 1:Well then, his head's like on the freaking floor and his mom's like what are you doing to my baby?
Speaker 5:We're like what the hell is going on and Martina's like man, I'm so sorry I'm falling apart over here and I'm cracking up I'm doing this in the most unprofessional way because I couldn't help it.
Speaker 5:It was hilarious to watch his face do that. We had no idea that this guy had a prosthetic leg right. So when martin has lifted him and jerked out of the chair, it popped it off and here he coming, his hand. He thought I just ripped his dude's leg off. I tell that story in here. We all laugh and cut up about it. You tell that story out here to a bunch of civilians and they look at you like what the hell is wrong with you.
Speaker 2:That's not funny.
Speaker 6:That's not funny at all that dude was almost dead and you are giggling about what happened.
Speaker 5:That's not funny. He survived, but you know you go to camp man and you tell these stories and you're able to share your experiences and things that you've been through with a bunch of people that have been there like you have. And that story is hilarious to me yes.
Speaker 5:So you know, it's a lot better being able to go to Camp Hero and sit down with people that have shared your experiences and know your mindset. They've been through similar things that you have and you can truly connect with these guys and these other girls, you don't have to be a fake you.
Speaker 5:You can be a true you and actually realize hey, I don't have to be this strong person that can't be harmed. I can actually be a human being and be vulnerable and ask for help. And that's something that's hard for people like us is to actually stop and ask for help. But you can do that.
Speaker 6:Speaking of vulnerable, one last story. You got the hand on that I know she.
Speaker 4:Speaking of vulnerable, one last story. You got the hand on the no. No, she told me, shut up.
Speaker 6:One last story. We'll call the guy Pete.
Speaker 5:The mannequin story Again. People just don't understand the highs and lows and the ups and downs and things. Right before I made EORU I went and another guy that I had been patrolling with. He came from Tennessee at a department I'm just going to call him P. Me and P get a call that there's an open door at this house and we get there and a realtor is waiting on us. He's already made the team and I'm all happy for him because you know we were both going to try out at the same time but they had not lifted that three-year restriction yet and where he had prior time on another department, they transferred that time over for him. Okay, so I had more time on Richmond than him, but I didn't have more policing time overall because they wouldn't recognize my corrections if my corrections experience into the policing. Okay, so me and Pete get there and we talk to this realtor and we're like all right, you know we're all serious because we're about to go clear a structure and you know he's on ERU. I want to be ERU. We're going to take this as serious as possible.
Speaker 5:Everybody makes mistakes. I'll say that now we talked to this realtor. She's like the house is completely empty. There's nothing inside. More than likely, somebody that was showing the house yesterday left the door unlocked and it's just open. I was like okay, cool. And I was like there's nothing in the house. She's like no, it's completely empty, 100% empty. So me and P go inside, we start clearing the upper structure. Me trying to be, you know, the best possible tactical prospect for the team that I can be. I'm digging my corners, getting out of doorways, I'm doing all the fundamentals of CQB following the threat stack priorities.
Speaker 4:I'm doing everything that I can do.
Speaker 5:I can see everything you're doing, yeah, so I look down through a metal grate and I'm like, hey, we got a basement. So he's like, how do you know? I'm like because I can see the lower floor through the grate. And he's like, all right, cool. So we clear the upper structure, we come to the stairs. For anybody that doesn't know, CQB stairs are an absolute tactical nightmare.
Speaker 5:No, matter what I'm like, the only good thing you have is either back out and come around and breach the back door and come in to go completely around the stairs, or eat it and say hurry up and go down. So why hurry up and go down these steps? Well, at the very end of the steps, slightly offset, there's this green door. That's a steel door that has steel mesh over top of the glass that's on it and a bright brass door knob. So you see a steel door with steel mesh over top of it that daylight's coming into it. You're like cool back door, that's what any you know normal person would probably think. They had the steel mesh over the wire or over the glass. Because you don't want intruders being able to come through this door. You want to make it as hard on them to break in as humanly possible. So we were like, okay, that's the back door, we bypass it, go through, clear the rest of this structure and we start back up the steps and we're like, hey, man, you know, that was pretty clean, we did a good job.
Speaker 5:And I look back at this green door and I'm like that door ain't got no lock on it. And I got to looking and I was like no, exterior door does not have a lock. That's not the back door. So I looked in. He's like because you could barely see through the glass. You could see daylight, but you could barely see through it because, and again I was like, okay, well, that's done on purpose, they don't want people seeing into their home.
Speaker 5:So I reach and grab the doorknob, pop the door open and it dumps into two more rooms, one going left of the doorway, one going right. So I'm like okay, well, you know, it opens up into two separate rooms and they're both right in this doorway, like somebody's going to have to eat this door and clear for this person to show clear on this room. So I look at P? P and I'm like you want left or you want right? He's like well, I'll plate the door, I'll eat it. I'm like all right, cool.
Speaker 5:So we stack up. I reach and I put my left hand up on his shoulder because I'm a right-handed shooter and I've got my pistol up at the high ready, oh yeah. And I'm like, yeah, and I'm like man, I'm ready, like we're, we're through here. So he starts to round the corner and I start to dump right and when I do, he locks up in his tracks and I feel his whole body just tremble and I'll never forget the noise. He goes ooh and I was like what the? So? He shook so hard that I was like he's dealing with someone. So I come over his shoulder with my pistol because again he locked Like it scared the crap out of him.
Speaker 5:I come over his shoulder and I see this like 6'9 dark figure with a scythe mid-swing and I was like oh shh. And I took the slack out of my trigger like I was about to break the shot and my flashlight hit this thing's face. It was a grim reaper, halloween man, oh my gosh.
Speaker 4:I almost shot you you should have shot it anyway.
Speaker 5:So again, man, like you talk about everybody's laughing yeah but, other people would be like that was good crap but that's not fun but you talk about like how your emotions do so many things in first response, in military, and it's constant ups and downs and you have a hard time dealing with it. Like you know, we were feeling great about ourself. We were serious and clear in the structure, felt great that we did a good job, realized oh shit, we messed up on this door.
Speaker 6:And then we're like, oh my God, we've got to kill this thing because it's trying to kill us with a saw His body almost died three times and you go from nearly crapping your pants and shooting a mannequin to.
Speaker 5:That was freaking hilarious.
Speaker 6:You squirreled like a girl when you saw that, did you pee a little? I'm pretty sure you peed a little, so of course then I had to do. I mean I would have felt like it would have been.
Speaker 2:We know you would have Afterwards.
Speaker 5:I had to do what any responsible, respecting officer that's, a professional would do, and I had to drive straight back to the police department and make fun of Pete ten times while we're playing the video on my body cam over and over and over again to the point that he got pissed and left. It was something that to this day I can still bring it up and he kind of giggles. He's like man, that wasn't funny. No, that was hilarious, that's awesome, we've had them. I mean, you deal with this?
Speaker 6:Every officer has a mirror story.
Speaker 1:Mirrors. Yeah, there's a cop in the airport. Every officer has a mirror story.
Speaker 2:He's awful ugly.
Speaker 4:Don't do a tactical dealing Sam. She'll probably get scared.
Speaker 5:Or you know you pop a random door and somebody's cat comes hauling ass out of it and scares the crap out of you and then you have to explain almost shot your cat, yeah. But you know you deal with all these ups and downs and your body almost forgets how to self-regulate. And camp reminds you that you have a place and a support system and a brotherhood that you can go to and genuinely find peace. Not act like it, not hope for it, but genuinely find peace.
Speaker 6:And not get a phone call back to your department or your superiors and say, hey, this is what we talked about or this is, it's all confidential. It should be.
Speaker 4:Yes, what stays can't be real. What stayed can't be real. It stays real. Well, I'm excited to go. I don't know if I need to volunteer or just go be part of it first and see what goes.
Speaker 5:Yeah, come and hang out with us any time. Like I said, you know we do all that stuff. Rocco actually just handed some money to me, and Jonathan, the guy that I met at the 511 store. He was like hey, we've been looking at building a range. Would you two want to build?
Speaker 1:one and we were like yeah, and he didn't give us any stipulations or anything.
Speaker 5:He's just like somewhere over there and went and rented us two big skid steers and we just went to town. He was like I don't care what you do, just make it cool.
Speaker 6:I trust you, all your range people, you do you and dude, we built a range like a nice one if you're handicapped, if you don't have legs, if you are missing an arm, doesn't matter, we'veby-sides that can get you down there. We can get your chair out and set you in it. You can get yourself out and set you in it if you're more independent. Yeah, I mean, it's literally for everyone, we can get you out and let you shoot.
Speaker 4:Yeah, when's camp. How many do they do? How often do you?
Speaker 6:actually meet or get together. The best thing to do is look on Facebook I think Camp Hero Kentucky's Facebook page, because they do the nature immersion courses right.
Speaker 5:Yeah, we do them about every other month and it's different things from land nav survival, man tracking, animal tracking, just different things. You can sign up for Craig's SEER courses and stuff like that. I mean, man, it's just an awesome opportunity.
Speaker 5:And you're not just dealing with people that you know. Just walk in like, hey, you know well, I know what a dandelion is. Or you know well, I mean I shot granddaddy's 12-gauge, you know when I was 12, so I can teach you to shoot. You know, you know when I was 12. So I can teach you to shoot. You know what Me? I run the range there most of the time but I have a lot of firearms experience and a lot of tactical experience. You know, craig runs the nature immersion program, but the man is a world renowned naturalist and survivalist and he's like an encyclopedia on survival holds no bounds to this guy. He's a freak when it comes to knowing what he knows. So I mean it's you get all these opportunities dude it is.
Speaker 5:I mean, it's a blast. You get all these opportunities opened up to you and you get the ability to heal and it doesn't cost you anything. That's awesome and even if you call rocco and you're like, hey, I know we don't have anything going on at camp today, but dude, I dude, I'm just kind of pent up Like can I just go chill at camp?
Speaker 5:He's like yeah sure, here's the codes to everything. Go, get the side-by-side ride around for a while, take it down to the creek, chill out BS, clear your mind and stay as long as you want. There's food in the fridge, there's water in the fridge. You're welcome to anything. You can sleep there like there's been. Dudes show up and stay for three, four, five days just to get crap off their mind, and Rocco's never like well, you owe the energy bill or you have to pay for the food you use. He's just like hey, do me a favor, let me know what we need down there. If we need some water, I'll bring you some like, if you need food, I'll bring you some.
Speaker 6:You know, you hear of these non-, these nonprofits that you donate to and you find out that they're actually profiting out the rear end off of it. That is not the case Like we can honestly say. That is not the case with this. I have seen a pair of these talking about Rocco giving money for the range turn right around and well, I mean we had how many people go down there and shoot? Like it opened up the door for a new form of therapy for people and it was pennies on the dollar for what you would have gotten it for anywhere else. And it all goes for a very, very good purpose. But I mean it's so important If you want to give and donate like I was saying earlier, get a hat or something or donate you can do a monthly through PayPal or whatever.
Speaker 6:But if you want your dollars to actually go towards something that actually does help people, like you can really just show up and watch things unfold. You know, like you can see the changes that it makes in people's lives. So, given a little bit of money, it actually feeds veterans and first responders. You know it feeds them lunch or provides a camper for them to stay in, or a fishing course, or you know stuff that actually does something if you want your dollars to go to something something that's going to actually help somebody and actually matter, make a difference to them and their families but yeah camp hero kentucky just type that in on facebook and you can find it.
Speaker 6:Or camp hero kyorg is the website. Just browse around on both of those and get to know it a little bit better. I hope to see you all at the benefit, because it really is a good time.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it's a blast.
Speaker 6:You won't hear me saying $100 a ticket is worth it for almost anything, it is for.
Speaker 2:Camphor yeah, it is for that, that's awesome.
Speaker 4:This has been so much fun, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:I thoroughly enjoyed myself.
Speaker 4:We've had a good time. Yeah, this is what we're doing. We're trying to show that we're human and we're trying to say we go through stuff and I've said from our I think it was the first podcast talking about we need more things for first responders who deal with things all the time, and it's there. We just need to take advantage and shake off the stigma of mental health and go and be a part so hopefully our three listeners will spread the word.
Speaker 4:I think we're a bit better than that, but I really appreciate you guys coming in. This has been informative and fun and thank you all.
Speaker 2:Thank you for what you're doing.
Speaker 4:Both of you all.
Speaker 2:Welcome back anytime. Yeah, we appreciate it Both of y'all. Welcome back anytime yeah, we appreciate it.
Speaker 4:Making new friends is incredible. I don't always do that anymore.
Speaker 2:I've kind of come to that shell that comes with the line that's.
Speaker 6:the thing is, we don't make friends with very many people, but it's easy to find a friend at Camp Hero or a like-minded people. You just show up and you feel like you're actually friends with them, because we feel misunderstood with so many other people.
Speaker 4:So thank you all very much. We're good, we're good, y'all good.
Speaker 5:Appreciate y'all Thanks for having us.
Speaker 2:Catch us on the next one.